migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

All right then , just don't come complaining once you get served hehe ... LoL

So back to topic . I AM ASKING NOW SUGGESTIONS ABOUT COMPRESSION!!

Pistons are ready to be made and the company called me today they will get them ready in 3 weeks so I need to tell em the ratio in less than a week, What will be a nice compression to have I was thinking 10.4.. anyone ? also the company engineer that works with the design said to me he modified the piston top shape to allow more timing and less preignition due to certain hot spots. And better valve clearance.
BTW the stock Rods are gonna get shot peened. (more strenght)


Ohh and for the record , I am not talking about money here, once this thread gets done I will point all places where you can find services and the totals for EVERYTHING except for SECRET stuff I am not gonna talk about

blk-majik

iTrader: (6)

Hmm... you mentioned the RIPP SC kit. I wouldn't suggest increasing the compression too much (if at all) if your considering forced induction. If your not sure, I'd stick with standard 9.5:1 to be safe for now.... unless you dont mind buying a second set before you get the SC.

If you are 100% sure your going to go SC (or turbo), it might be better to get lower compression pistons and just boost more. That way your not locked into always having to run on higher octane fuel. Just tune down the boost and save some money day-to-day.

Conversely, if you sure your keeping it all-motor (at least for the time being), then your right. The number again depends on what kind of fuel you want to run. I've done no math, but around 10.4:1 sounds right for our engine to use 93 octane. With that, breaking 250whp should be no trouble at all. Many similar (read:honda) setups have gotten closer to 300hp. a stock accura tsx (K24A2) has a 2.4L 10.5:1 with a 7100rpm redline, and puts out 200hp stock.

Btw, are you at all concerned about the strength of the valves? I know you coated the heads for heat protection, but the increased redline will give some additional strain on top of that. you touched on the springs, seals and guide, but the valves are still standard =)

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

They call it cryogenics ......

Its all mentioned in the beggining of the thread . It gives more strenght and rearanges the Atomic structure relieving the residual stress... It will be applied to the whole cyl head, here is the process:

We place them in a processor where they are gradually cooled with nitrogen gas to -300 degrees Fahrenheit. That temperature is maintained for at least eight hours. The length of time varies by material and desired results.

After the cooling cycle is complete, the item is slowly warmed back to room temperature. Then the object is heat-treated, with temperatures of 100 to 400 degrees Fahrenheit, depending on the composition of the item. Finally, the item is gradually returned to room temperature. The complete process takes a minimum
of 24 hours.



Valve springs and retainers are coated with a dry film lubricant that will keep them from yielding at HIGH RPM and the same to the retainers and rest of the valves. Ceramic coating was applied to EVERYTHING INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER to keep the heat inside of it MAXIMIZING performance if you dont think this can in fact increase performance, A company did a test using the same brand of coatings I used and they gained a 10% increase in HP from a 350 chevy. They took two motors and rebuilt them one stock and one with ceramics. The one with ceramics gained 10% Hp @ wheels over the other one. And it seems to me that this is logical cause the more you try to keep the heat inside the chamber the best it will help you do the work of pushing the piston, HEAT = ENERGY.
That means heat is not my concern and remember my redline is not 10K is 7.5Kish depending on what we will see when tunning. I am not saying my engine will gain 15 hp just with the coatings I am saying that it will help to use the fuel more efficiently.

boozeup&riot

iTrader: (12)

Oh no complaints at all man. I hope you are right because this project is awesome. Really I'm just a pessimistic cynical cheerleader here. Going from probably like a 140-150 whp to 250 whp on just NA tuning is *very* impressive. If you can do it, mark my words I will be sure to publicly admit that I am wrong. Again, good luck man and if you pull this off, you get nothing but my respect. Hell, even if its not 250whp you still get it for all the work and help you offer. I just like playin devils advocate is all.

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

Dude its not just tuning ok its lots of stuff........ INternals and mods discussed... not just bolt ons

boozeup&riot

iTrader: (12)

I know, I've read this whole thread as well. I was just summing things up quickly is all. I'm really not trying to start a fight with you. Sorry if it seems as though I am. However you want to label what you are doing, you are talking about adding basically ~110+ whp without going FI, thats all I was getting at.

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

Anyway (whatever) keeping on topic ,,,

THe Im is ready and I will pick it up today.. and post pics hopefully without the ceramic, I am concerned however about FUEL. I think I am gonna max out the stock injectors because once I install the camshaft this engine is gonna suck a LOT more air and I am gonna need more fuel than the stock can deliver. If you guys go to the rc engineering site you can calculate the injector cc and since people say its 305 you guys can go to the first calculation put 200 BRAKE HP .75 duty cycle , 4 injectors, Brake specific fuel consumption is .45 for N/A and fuel pressure 45 then you should find out our rate in the calculation results which is 305cc . So we are maxing out injectors @ aproximately 200 FLYWHEEL HP ..... WRX injectors are 440cc or something (the blue ones) since I can adjust for fuel its easy for me to upgrade and retain the same MPG under 3.5k.. ANy suggestions for other cars that might have injectors that fit?

boozeup&riot

iTrader: (12)

If I'm reading this correctly, are you suggesting that people running even a few bolt-ons nearing close to 200 hp atc are actually getting close to the limits of their injectors as well... is that right? If so, what do you plan to upgrade to?

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

another member, fdrckrs I believe, seems to think 1g eclipse injectors will work IIRC

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

Here is the calculation ....



There where people saying Blue WRX injectors work but I am not sure,,,

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

I would say 200hp atc is a little further than what you think, we are talking atc, which is tested under load, which nets lower HP numbers such as those an eddy current dyno would show. my mustang dyno numbers are around 150 at this point I would imagine, so maybe 170 ATC. That's why you need to be able to log from your OBDII port when you get to a certain point, and also why I recommend to anyone that is adding major power to purchase their own wideband setup. Migue is most likely spot on, that's about 40hp over our ATC baseline, which is a good margin to keep the injectors at a decent duty cycle.


Edit:
If you can tell I'm not real keen on the inertia dyno

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

I don't remember for sure either, but I believe that is around our size injector, possibly slightly larger than ours if Mitsu decided to do an 80% duty cycle.

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

I know they do, I thought you were asking about OTHER alternatives. I bought a set from a member of NASIOC. I joined just to purchase them, they don't have a fifty post limit The guys rating was pretty good though.

Edit: IIRC they flow 440, but I KNOW they flow enough for what I want to do, and most likely would for your application as well.

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

IIRC? you mean WRX?

EDIT : Ohh and with the camshaft I am pretty sure I will be hitting .60 duty cycle on 440cc injectors . People don't believe that much in NA engines nowadays, but they can still suck a lot of **** into them hehehe

boozeup&riot

iTrader: (12)

Dan,

thank you for the info. I realize that 200 atc is still quite a ways away from the baseline RA numbers, but to elaborate on my question a little: you suggest that about 40 over our ATC baseline as being a healthy margin. At what point would you or migue say its no longer a healthy margin, and given the goal of 250~, what would be the safe upgrade? If I'm understanding all of this correctly, you'd want to go with injectors good for nearly 300hp or so...?