Fuel Injectors For An 06 Ra
Jul 26, 2007, 09:29 AM
#16
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bigger injectors, fuel rail and fuel pump means more fuel into...it's better to make it a return system this way u can add a fuel regulator...gjgfrombigd adding the fuel upgrades to what u have...will give u lots of gains...just use the regulator so u don't start pushing to much fuel in...but yes u will see gains...for more gains u tune the ecu ...u don't need to start using so much money blindly ...u don't want to mess with ecu?...then just upgrade fuel... tune a lil with the regulator to see where is the best psi for ur car and keep it that way it will run fine
Jul 26, 2007, 03:46 PM
#17
bigger injectors, fuel rail and fuel pump means more fuel into...it's better to make it a return system this way u can add a fuel regulator...gjgfrombigd adding the fuel upgrades to what u have...will give u lots of gains...just use the regulator so u don't start pushing to much fuel in...but yes u will see gains...for more gains u tune the ecu ...u don't need to start using so much money blindly ...u don't want to mess with ecu?...then just upgrade fuel... tune a lil with the regulator to see where is the best psi for ur car and keep it that way it will run fine
I don't agree. Without opening up breathing mods, more fuel does nothing. Hell, stock we already run too ruch. No need to throw more fuel at anything.
Jul 27, 2007, 01:27 PM
#19
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the fuel rail doesn't directly bolt up because u need to either turn into return system or do something to keep it that way...injectors need new spacers because most of them r taller...
and u r wrong boozeup&riot injectors work in pulses...bigger injectors send more fuel in the amount of pulses...so using biggers ones will always bring more fuel into the chamber and that's always more power...plus he said he had I/H/E that's enough on breathing mods to start talking about fuel issues plus using a regulator helps a lot...something most of u don't even think about.
and u r wrong boozeup&riot injectors work in pulses...bigger injectors send more fuel in the amount of pulses...so using biggers ones will always bring more fuel into the chamber and that's always more power...plus he said he had I/H/E that's enough on breathing mods to start talking about fuel issues plus using a regulator helps a lot...something most of u don't even think about.
Jul 27, 2007, 03:13 PM
#21
and u r wrong boozeup&riot injectors work in pulses...bigger injectors send more fuel in the amount of pulses...so using biggers ones will always bring more fuel into the chamber and that's always more power...plus he said he had I/H/E that's enough on breathing mods to start talking about fuel issues plus using a regulator helps a lot...something most of u don't even think about.
Sorry man I just don't agree. We have *many* users here running the stock 305 cc injectors with I/H/E + piggy who don't need bigger injectors. They don't add power, the allow you to make more if you can throw more air into the mix. If just upgrading the injectors and rail made more power, it'd be like the poor mans NOS and everyone would do it. The formula is not as simple as: more fuel = more power. You need more air too, and not just an upgraded intake.
I love to be proven wrong though, by all means if you'd like, please upgrade just your injectors and rail and throw it on the dyno. I'd love to see the results, as I would definately follow you down that path if it proved fruitful.
Last edited by boozeup&riot; Jul 27, 2007 at 04:29 PM.
Jul 27, 2007, 06:09 PM
#22
the fuel rail doesn't directly bolt up because u need to either turn into return system or do something to keep it that way...injectors need new spacers because most of them r taller...
and u r wrong boozeup&riot injectors work in pulses...bigger injectors send more fuel in the amount of pulses...so using biggers ones will always bring more fuel into the chamber and that's always more power...plus he said he had I/H/E that's enough on breathing mods to start talking about fuel issues plus using a regulator helps a lot...something most of u don't even think about.
and u r wrong boozeup&riot injectors work in pulses...bigger injectors send more fuel in the amount of pulses...so using biggers ones will always bring more fuel into the chamber and that's always more power...plus he said he had I/H/E that's enough on breathing mods to start talking about fuel issues plus using a regulator helps a lot...something most of u don't even think about.
And it does make a lot of sense.
Jul 27, 2007, 06:13 PM
#23
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lol, and we love to be proven right... dont get us wrong Im not saying the guys here know everything... but they REALLY do test EVERYTHING
Remember also the temperature difference, noy everything that gives 10 hp there, doesnt give 10 hp here...unless its breathing mods
Remember also the temperature difference, noy everything that gives 10 hp there, doesnt give 10 hp here...unless its breathing mods
Jul 27, 2007, 06:49 PM
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gjgfrombigd...ur better off with a return system but that's opinion wise...I run return system and have a fuel regulator...this way u will be able to raise pressure...to use the correct space u can do like migueRA he used lil spacers one by one till he made the correct space...I like it to look clean so I bought like a long barrel and cut to match the correct space...to "cap off" the fuel rail...umm I'm not sure maybe u can find an evo adapter that u could use to put it on and cap it...not sure
u said urself boozeup&riot they use the piggy right? but what does the piggy do? the piggy makes the injector pulse more times per second...so if I just add a bigger pulse...you have the same amount of fuel in the same time...maybe less time...plus it's just not more fuel pressure...more fuel volume will always make more power...I haven't dyno yet...but I will soon...and I think my car is around the 210 in HP maybe more not sure...I say this because of a race I had with a Zion xb(turbo) with 220 whp and we all know they have less weight than us...still I defeated the guy by 2 cars...not just 3 shifts...all the way to 130+...even more another RA...he had all that... I/H/E pulley,CAI,piggy,suspension, plus toyo RA1(comp tires), his car is rdy to grip...I'm still with some kumhos plus stock suspension..he even told me he had a trick on the MAF so the ecu thinks the air is always cold...anyway still got the guy by 2 cars...after 90+ at lunch I was like 3 cars infront....remember...no grip...but this is all track stuff...to many variants right? soon I'll upload the dyno don't worry...
u said urself boozeup&riot they use the piggy right? but what does the piggy do? the piggy makes the injector pulse more times per second...so if I just add a bigger pulse...you have the same amount of fuel in the same time...maybe less time...plus it's just not more fuel pressure...more fuel volume will always make more power...I haven't dyno yet...but I will soon...and I think my car is around the 210 in HP maybe more not sure...I say this because of a race I had with a Zion xb(turbo) with 220 whp and we all know they have less weight than us...still I defeated the guy by 2 cars...not just 3 shifts...all the way to 130+...even more another RA...he had all that... I/H/E pulley,CAI,piggy,suspension, plus toyo RA1(comp tires), his car is rdy to grip...I'm still with some kumhos plus stock suspension..he even told me he had a trick on the MAF so the ecu thinks the air is always cold...anyway still got the guy by 2 cars...after 90+ at lunch I was like 3 cars infront....remember...no grip...but this is all track stuff...to many variants right? soon I'll upload the dyno don't worry...
Jul 27, 2007, 07:05 PM
#26
gjgfrombigd...ur better off with a return system but that's opinion wise...I run return system and have a fuel regulator...this way u will be able to raise pressure...to use the correct space u can do like migueRA he used lil spacers one by one till he made the correct space...I like it to look clean so I bought like a long barrel and cut to match the correct space...to "cap off" the fuel rail...umm I'm not sure maybe u can find an evo adapter that u could use to put it on and cap it...not sure
u said urself boozeup&riot they use the piggy right? but what does the piggy do? the piggy makes the injector pulse more times per second...so if I just add a bigger pulse...you have the same amount of fuel in the same time...maybe less time...plus it's just not more fuel pressure...more fuel volume will always make more power...I haven't dyno yet...but I will soon...and I think my car is around the 210 in HP maybe more not sure...I say this because of a race I had with a Zion xb(turbo) with 220 whp and we all know they have less weight than us...still I defeated the guy by 2 cars...not just 3 shifts...all the way to 130+...even more another RA...he had all that... I/H/E pulley,CAI,piggy,suspension, plus toyo RA1(comp tires), his car is rdy to grip...I'm still with some kumhos plus stock suspension..he even told me he had a trick on the MAF so the ecu thinks the air is always cold...anyway still got the guy by 2 cars...after 90+ at lunch I was like 3 cars infront....remember...no grip...but this is all track stuff...to many variants right? soon I'll upload the dyno don't worry...
u said urself boozeup&riot they use the piggy right? but what does the piggy do? the piggy makes the injector pulse more times per second...so if I just add a bigger pulse...you have the same amount of fuel in the same time...maybe less time...plus it's just not more fuel pressure...more fuel volume will always make more power...I haven't dyno yet...but I will soon...and I think my car is around the 210 in HP maybe more not sure...I say this because of a race I had with a Zion xb(turbo) with 220 whp and we all know they have less weight than us...still I defeated the guy by 2 cars...not just 3 shifts...all the way to 130+...even more another RA...he had all that... I/H/E pulley,CAI,piggy,suspension, plus toyo RA1(comp tires), his car is rdy to grip...I'm still with some kumhos plus stock suspension..he even told me he had a trick on the MAF so the ecu thinks the air is always cold...anyway still got the guy by 2 cars...after 90+ at lunch I was like 3 cars infront....remember...no grip...but this is all track stuff...to many variants right? soon I'll upload the dyno don't worry...
i have to be against you here....
the piggy does not control inyector pulses it mocks the maf signal to alow more fuel to be dumped by this method leaning or enriching the system.... but it does not control directly the injector pulses for that you need a stand alone...
if you dump to much fuel (too rich "EMBUCHAR!") but have no way to make air rush in YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING to it
Jul 28, 2007, 10:34 AM
#28
Yes, it does make some sense. But more fuel without more air is just running too rich, not extracting more power.
Fuel injectors atomize fuel particles in the combustion chamber changing it from a liquid to a vapor. The vapor mixes with air where it is compressed in the combustion chamber and then ignited by your spark plugs. An efficient combustion ignites that vapor cloud completely, exerting force on your pistons turning your crankshaft etc. If that vapor cloud is not completely ignited (due to being too dense with fuel, or not enough air: IE running too rich) it reduces the strength of the combustion, hence exerting less force on the piston etc. It also leaves a thick, disgusting residue on the inside of your combustion chamber which coats the tip of your spark plugs, and everything else in there - its not good for your combustion chamber.
I have learned A TON from the PR guys, and respect all input. I've learned a whole lot on these boards by disagreeing with people much more informed than I, and then set straight. I'm not trying to fight with anyone here, and as stated if simply upgrading your rail and injectors did prove fruitful, I'd do it tomorrow. I also think that if blitz is running 210 whp, he's also very likely at a stage with his car where bigger injectors are a must for him. It's about an efficient combustion and if he's making that power, he needs the fuel. For someone running I/H/E, it's overkill. People running the piggy could just as easily be leaning out the mixture as adding air to it for a more efficient, powerful combustion.
I also want to say thank you guys for a mature conversation. I just want a better understanding of things, because I love learning about this stuff. Not two weeks ago I was pretty unclear about fuel injectors and duty cycles etc, so I could still be very wrong here. Thanks for helping me get more info.
Fuel injectors atomize fuel particles in the combustion chamber changing it from a liquid to a vapor. The vapor mixes with air where it is compressed in the combustion chamber and then ignited by your spark plugs. An efficient combustion ignites that vapor cloud completely, exerting force on your pistons turning your crankshaft etc. If that vapor cloud is not completely ignited (due to being too dense with fuel, or not enough air: IE running too rich) it reduces the strength of the combustion, hence exerting less force on the piston etc. It also leaves a thick, disgusting residue on the inside of your combustion chamber which coats the tip of your spark plugs, and everything else in there - its not good for your combustion chamber.
I have learned A TON from the PR guys, and respect all input. I've learned a whole lot on these boards by disagreeing with people much more informed than I, and then set straight. I'm not trying to fight with anyone here, and as stated if simply upgrading your rail and injectors did prove fruitful, I'd do it tomorrow. I also think that if blitz is running 210 whp, he's also very likely at a stage with his car where bigger injectors are a must for him. It's about an efficient combustion and if he's making that power, he needs the fuel. For someone running I/H/E, it's overkill. People running the piggy could just as easily be leaning out the mixture as adding air to it for a more efficient, powerful combustion.
I also want to say thank you guys for a mature conversation. I just want a better understanding of things, because I love learning about this stuff. Not two weeks ago I was pretty unclear about fuel injectors and duty cycles etc, so I could still be very wrong here. Thanks for helping me get more info.
Last edited by boozeup&riot; Jul 29, 2007 at 07:41 AM.
Dec 13, 2007, 05:30 AM
#29
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man, it looks like I missed a real good one here
to add my .02 here in the states I would say 80% of us are leaning out the mix, not adding fuel, with the piggybacks and those mods discussed (i/h/e.) the stock tune is rich, and RRM's base tune takes a TON of fuel out of the mix; about twice as much as was required when I installed my wideband and tuned my car with their NA piggy
... and I go back to searching
to add my .02 here in the states I would say 80% of us are leaning out the mix, not adding fuel, with the piggybacks and those mods discussed (i/h/e.) the stock tune is rich, and RRM's base tune takes a TON of fuel out of the mix; about twice as much as was required when I installed my wideband and tuned my car with their NA piggy
... and I go back to searching
Jan 6, 2008, 11:38 AM
#30
I tuned a ralliart last year for a guy who ultimately hired me to design him a turbo kit. As others have said there is more power in leaning them out slightly. I can't remember the numbers exactly but it made something to the tune of 12whp more.
Unfortunately on most sport compacts people replace the fuel rails and put on geezly big fuel pressure regulators and all for no reason. Most NA setups are within 25% of the stock fuel requirements. To produce peak power you're usually subtracting 5-10% from the stock tune anyway. Asking 15% more out of a factory fuel system is usually just fine. I wouldn't even bother switching to a returned fuel system until you're pushing more than 400whp.
In the honda world the fuel rails are a similar size and I've had no trouble pushing out 500whp on stock rails and lines.
Now, to install the RC injectors you need new plugs and for the one I did I machined some spacers. I believe the guy I'm doing the design for is going to be selling them because he had me make up 20 of them... If you're super interested PM me and I'll ask him - I don't know if he's on this site.
We also tried to fit the WRX injectors as I had a few sets here from years ago when peope were grinding the tips off them
although the injectors were already ruined they did give an idea of fitment. You still need the spacers on the fuel rail but the plugs were compatible.
Unfortunately on most sport compacts people replace the fuel rails and put on geezly big fuel pressure regulators and all for no reason. Most NA setups are within 25% of the stock fuel requirements. To produce peak power you're usually subtracting 5-10% from the stock tune anyway. Asking 15% more out of a factory fuel system is usually just fine. I wouldn't even bother switching to a returned fuel system until you're pushing more than 400whp.
In the honda world the fuel rails are a similar size and I've had no trouble pushing out 500whp on stock rails and lines.
Now, to install the RC injectors you need new plugs and for the one I did I machined some spacers. I believe the guy I'm doing the design for is going to be selling them because he had me make up 20 of them... If you're super interested PM me and I'll ask him - I don't know if he's on this site.
We also tried to fit the WRX injectors as I had a few sets here from years ago when peope were grinding the tips off them
although the injectors were already ruined they did give an idea of fitment. You still need the spacers on the fuel rail but the plugs were compatible.