nerdbotSKRA

iTrader: (4)

First to note I do have a CEL, but have had it for awhile. Will see if it tells me something new when I'm able to borrow buddy's OBD reader. Last few times I checked it the light was present because bank 1 read too much oxygen.

I recently installed my wideband (bout a month ago) and it's calibrated fine - which is why this AFR issue bugs me.

Normally when I fire my car up it runs a little lean (about 15.5-16) and simmers to a 14.4 at idle. WOT would remain at about 14-14.4. I know some people may think that's too lean (or not rich enough) but the OEM look-up table hackish posted a long while back puts the car at a 14.8 idle I think, etc, so now worries there.

Recently, when I fire up my car it holds a constant 17 AFR (I know, WTF, right) - and idles rough. It remains this way after warm up and even after a few minutes of driving. Feels like it's bogging when I try to tromp on it, but soon after trying to accelerate it "breaks loose" and sits back down to a normal 14.4, remains to drives normal until I let off > this is when you'd see the deceleration fuel cut off. When I come to a stop the AFR seats back to 14.4 but spikes again n begins rough idling.

I've seen fluctuations in the AFR the last couple of days with varying idles (ie. come to a stop from driving 14.4 and jump to a 17 AFR, or fluctuate between 14.4 and 13.8-16ish).

The other day after putting a new fuel map into the piggyback, nothing really changed, but my WOT was at about 16.6 which feels hella more explosive than the previous.

Any other time the car drives fine, but this happens often enough I'm beginning to bug out.

Any ideas what's going on? Is this this a classic ECU-fighting-the-piggyback situation? Could the 65mm TB be causing problems? Maybe bad spark? < changed plugs awhile ago. Might need to check those out to see what they look like.

Also considering bad vacuum or EVAP problems, but I'm sure the OBD would tell me this.

Usually running 89 pump gas.

Any ideas, please put them out there. Thanks.

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

maybe an air leak pre-throttle body? MAF could be screwy...i dunno man, it could be the piggy back, and yeah, that's hella lean for 89, what are you running for timing?

Ralliartize It

iTrader: (89)

I'd attribute some of you lean issues to the 65mm TB. I had the 63mm TB and I ran lean like it was my job

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

oh yeah? was that with the factory tune?

nerdbotSKRA

iTrader: (4)

Both guys with the OBD's (one a shop diagnostic, other a personal hand held) flaked out on me, lame.

I've heard that the 65mm throttle body has been known to throw a P0171, but I'd still have to scan to find out.

Crans, I don't have any timing compensation (yet). My camshaft is currently sitting at a machine shop right now getting spun up for some numbers. I'll look into timing advance/retardation once it's in. Time and money have proven themselves worthy of getting that mod in motion.

I've been running 89 octane since reading that the piggyback was originally tuned for 89 octane (or 91, fuzzy on that), further research said it was denatured to 87 regular.

I decided maybe the knock sensor was having a hay day so I ran the tank down and tossed 87 in, it appears to have calmed down. My WOT runs back at 14-14.4 and leans out (but that's in that "special" RPM area ).

There's still a rough idle, went to inspect the air push at the tail pipe and the damn thing is misfiring every so often.

Pulling the plugs later after work and school is done to see what's going on with those.

Looking into running some injector cleaner, checking fuel pressure as well.

Fuel filter has not been changed but I've heard this is non-serviceable, and is replaced with the fuel pump..

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

if you're knocking you should run higher octane if you can't retard the timing...

nerdbotSKRA

iTrader: (4)

Indeed^

What I'm going to do after this tank of 87 winds down is run - or even blend - a "premium" octane fuel to see if it stops.

Mind you, I filled 87 as a test and it has smoothed things over a fair deal - the mitsu ECU is designed for regular pump gas, bought this negating I've modified the car.

My local Husky sells a 92 midgrade and a 94 premium, but I think 94 would be overkill. Petro-Canada a few blocks away sells 89 mid and 91/92 premium...

^ funny how that works haha.

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

yeah we don't have any husky stations out this way that i've seen but shell has ultra 94, and premium 91, and petro canada has 91 super clean, and i forget what their 94 is called..the petro by my place only has 91, the one by the highway carries 94, probably because of all the high compression expensive cars that tend to pass through on the 401 hwy.

nerdbotSKRA

iTrader: (4)

So here's how my evening went.

Decided once off work to go grab some injector/fuel system cleaner. Filled up tank, dropped that in. Went for a decent drive, no real immediate effects.

Got hooked up with some weird OBD scanner/datalogger, couldn't pull the code off my CEL. Will need to hop over to buddies garage to use a full system scanner I guess.



Then, decided to pull the plugs.

When I realized I may have a problem:


Not only do the coils have oil on them, but some areas like the one above were caking. Smell like gasoline/"hot motor".


#4 had a good amount of oil on it (threads were wet, along with rest of the spark plug body):



Here's where I get really pissed off.

These are NOT the plugs I put in when I replaced them.

I replaced my spark plugs with the NGK iridiums, same number the original, and double checked against the owner's manual and everything.

I have NO IDEA what the f*** these things are (well I do, actually the plugs state that they're "Autolite XP Xtreme Performance 5325").



WHAT THE F*** ARE THESE!?! These are gapped at 0.043-0.044, one of them is even close 0.048!!!.

Minus the 0.048 and the fact that another one of them it actually CHIPPED around the diode, THESE ARE SPEC FOR A FREAKING 2.0 MOTOR.

These are NOT the NGK iridiums I put in a little over a year ago.


*INSERT RAGE PERIOD HERE*

I don't know how these possibly could have been swapped out, but I have been to about 5 shops to have my "new-broken" suspension looked at...

Luckily I kept my previous plugs, and popped those in.

Now my exhaust smells better, there's less hesitation during acceleration, aside from idle seeking like a freaking DSM it drives much better.

The kicker is the damn thing is now misfiring even more with the correct plugs in. It's missing alot while it's idling, but drives fine under load (anything above 1000 RPM).

AFR under normal cruise conditions is now 14, dips between 13-8-14.2, so it's a little more rich with the original plugs as compared to before.

I think some of the coils might be shot, because at normal idle it's have problems running smoothly. It's relearning right now, but when it hits normal idle the AFR jumps to 17.

Erm... is any part of the coil pack supposed to spin? Two of the coil packs have a spinning base - the rubber part that surrounds the coil.



My car's been messed with by someone at some point being out of my hands.. I'm right f****** pissed.

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

i would be pissed too...that's like like steeling a 40" LCD TV and leaving a 13" black and white in it's place...

it's ok if the plug boot spins...it just guides the contacts onto the plug...

and i would be concerned with where the oil is coming from...valve stem seals? head gasket? rings?

nerdbotSKRA

iTrader: (4)

Alright, good. I'm going to multimeter the coils anyway to double check their condition, I've never heard of wrong spark plugs damaging ignition coils but would be good to rule it out. I don't know how long those plugs were in there for... up until last night I thought I was running NGK's... whodunnit ..?

Alienated. Haha. Buying another set after school...

I'm thinking because those plugs are different that the oil may have just seeped out and past the threads or something, #1 #2 and #3 were relatively loose. #4 was the only one I had to try to remove - but that was the one that was completely covered in oil..

I've heard that a leaking valve cover gasket can cause this? Anyone confirm?

edit - MAN that bugs me...

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

the tube that the spark plugs go into have seals at the top and seat against the holes in the valve cover, and are completely sealed in the head, oil should not get into the cylinder that way...

a pooched valve cover seal will only let oil out of the head/valve cover, it's impossible for it to let oil into the cylinder...from the head, you are basically limited to valve stem seals as a point of failure...

roblaza

iTrader: (22)

My bet is the seals in the valve cover. After time they can get brittle. If your valve cover was off recently, then they could also have been ignored and not replaced. Have a look at them, because as stated above, you shouldnt be getting oil up from the combustion chamber through the threads on the plug. If you are, then there's a more serous problem at work here.

Start with the seals in the valve cover and go from there. Have a look, and make sure the cover bolts are tourqued properly to avoid the seals not seating properly

RalliartN

iTrader: (1)

Valve cover seals yes. My Subaru's leaked and the results looked just like your pics.

nerdbotSKRA

iTrader: (4)

Will definitely look in to that.


Can't get new plugs here, apparently Regina is all out of stock. Have to order out of province (lordy lord.. seriously?)

Pulled a code when visiting Part Source.

P0300, reader picked up on another code but died. Assuming it's a lean condition code.

"Random misfire" - gee thanks tips... Full system scanner coming Saturday or Sunday to clarify that one.

Is there a procedure for removing the piggyback or just disconnect battery and pull it out "first try no warm up" ?

Want to see how it runs without just to test that out...


Thanks for the comments guys.