DIY Water/Meth Injection
Mar 31, 2012, 08:54 PM
#17
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Use injection system to prevent knock.
Use reflash to extract a few more hp's.
Or maybe use RRM's timing box while running 87 octane.
From a low budget modifiction, might be able to put down interesting numbers if combined with tuning.
Use reflash to extract a few more hp's.
Or maybe use RRM's timing box while running 87 octane.
From a low budget modifiction, might be able to put down interesting numbers if combined with tuning.
Apr 1, 2012, 07:41 AM
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about the atomization of the spray.. well I had several times in my hands injectors from AEM since we have installed kits, and I compared the atomization you get ... let me say you somethjing.. my atomization is not the best but you know its doing it right when the air outside moves the particles of water/meth and make them fly away.
From people who doesnt know... having rich AFR let you get the fastest combustion flame front dispersion.. we are talking between 11.5 and 12.5.. go to 4shared.com there are 2 books you might find interesting... look for PULKRABEK and HEYWOOD.. Internal combustion engines... that are my books from when I studied my 2 courses on engines.
So getting richer AFR lets you without advancing time, get a faster combustion. Adding ALCOHOL not even methanol.. yes I add some ethylic alcohol which octane rating is higher than unleaded gas, in those books please read about stoichiometry and how to calculate it, I mean does anybody wants to know why running on pure methanol has an stoich of about 7 or 8, well all is about thermochemistry of the combustion I already (with a friend of mine) calculated.
And well, thanks all for your comments, this week I am goin to the 1/4 mile.. If this project does not achieve any hp or any better numbers then, there you go.. another way not to spend 20 bucks (I did it for 4 haha) buying or making upgrades to your car that will only add weight and no power.
From people who doesnt know... having rich AFR let you get the fastest combustion flame front dispersion.. we are talking between 11.5 and 12.5.. go to 4shared.com there are 2 books you might find interesting... look for PULKRABEK and HEYWOOD.. Internal combustion engines... that are my books from when I studied my 2 courses on engines.
So getting richer AFR lets you without advancing time, get a faster combustion. Adding ALCOHOL not even methanol.. yes I add some ethylic alcohol which octane rating is higher than unleaded gas, in those books please read about stoichiometry and how to calculate it, I mean does anybody wants to know why running on pure methanol has an stoich of about 7 or 8, well all is about thermochemistry of the combustion I already (with a friend of mine) calculated.
And well, thanks all for your comments, this week I am goin to the 1/4 mile.. If this project does not achieve any hp or any better numbers then, there you go.. another way not to spend 20 bucks (I did it for 4 haha) buying or making upgrades to your car that will only add weight and no power.
Apr 1, 2012, 07:46 AM
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Ah for the guys running turbo, you can do this to your FMIC and you will get better results since water and meth will remove heat from your intercooler also and get better results.. you can use only water if you want to. for 20 bucks you get 2 sprayers as for the wipers but you position them in front of the intercooler and get a better cooling....
In fact this project came out of that idea, when my friend told me about the system costing 200 mexican pesos (less than 17 USA dollars), I had some spare money and we wanted to do this for his ga16dne+t intercooler. His car wasn't working and we decided to try it on mine haha.
Edit:
I am an automotive engineer, my friend is automotive engineer, and his father is also a mechanical engineer which gave mechanical and thermodynamics courses in the university we graduated. His dad approved our work after a couple questions.
In fact this project came out of that idea, when my friend told me about the system costing 200 mexican pesos (less than 17 USA dollars), I had some spare money and we wanted to do this for his ga16dne+t intercooler. His car wasn't working and we decided to try it on mine haha.
Edit:
I am an automotive engineer, my friend is automotive engineer, and his father is also a mechanical engineer which gave mechanical and thermodynamics courses in the university we graduated. His dad approved our work after a couple questions.
Last edited by Tamez10; Apr 1, 2012 at 07:48 AM. Reason: edit
Apr 1, 2012, 01:46 PM
#21
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@Cranswick : I know, it's about a 20 minutes drive from where I live. I also plan on acquiring a second R//A this summer, VGA with read end damage or side damage and low mileage. It's always handy to have a second engine/tranny combo, plus all the bits that I've never bothered buying that will return my car to perfect shape. I wouldn't mind experimenting on one of my engines, plus being able to scavenge all the parts to build the kit on the 2nd car. I have the Torque App on my Android, with a pretty good Bluetooth emitter, so I'll be able to monitor IAT.
@Tamez : I must say I'm pretty jealous of your situation, good sir. I recently went to back to college, to earn a spot at the best university my region (province of Québec, Canada) offers in mechanical engineering. Being able to talk of different aspects of the automotive engineering with members of your entourage must be awesome.
How hard would it be to use a gasoline injector to inject the mixture? With the 2nd R//A I plan to buy, I'd like to reuse one of the spare injectors I'll have. I could literally strip the car of it's fuel system and use it for meth injection, using the windshield washer tank and pump. All I'd need would be some kind of rpm switch, and maybe source a tank with a low level sensor and have an indicator inside the car? Then bring the car to PSI Tuning to have it tuned with the kit. I don't want a ghetto rigged system, I want something dependable and that looks clean. I'm curious if you can store 2 switch activated maps on the stock ECU (like in an SRT-4 Neon), or you need to reflash between maps each time. I could have one map for meth injection, and the other for no injection.
@Tamez : I must say I'm pretty jealous of your situation, good sir. I recently went to back to college, to earn a spot at the best university my region (province of Québec, Canada) offers in mechanical engineering. Being able to talk of different aspects of the automotive engineering with members of your entourage must be awesome.
How hard would it be to use a gasoline injector to inject the mixture? With the 2nd R//A I plan to buy, I'd like to reuse one of the spare injectors I'll have. I could literally strip the car of it's fuel system and use it for meth injection, using the windshield washer tank and pump. All I'd need would be some kind of rpm switch, and maybe source a tank with a low level sensor and have an indicator inside the car? Then bring the car to PSI Tuning to have it tuned with the kit. I don't want a ghetto rigged system, I want something dependable and that looks clean. I'm curious if you can store 2 switch activated maps on the stock ECU (like in an SRT-4 Neon), or you need to reflash between maps each time. I could have one map for meth injection, and the other for no injection.
Apr 1, 2012, 01:53 PM
#22
This idea is dangerous and a waste of time. Install looks horrendous and ghetto.
Meth kits are designed to react fast, but more importantly atomize the liquid based on the application. This is as good as poking holes in your intake so you can have as much air as possible.
The plus side is you are creative, just not at this application. Good luck.
Meth kits are designed to react fast, but more importantly atomize the liquid based on the application. This is as good as poking holes in your intake so you can have as much air as possible.
The plus side is you are creative, just not at this application. Good luck.
Apr 1, 2012, 06:47 PM
#24
hey ZyXwVu4321, you only say this sucks because you didn't think of it. Tamez is cool as hell and gets more girls than you do. That's why he's injecting and you're just reading about it. You follow the evo sheeple while we give RA intake charge some atomization nightmares - deal with it.
Apr 2, 2012, 05:31 AM
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We have some crazy friends with evos and gtrs but they think they are superior for owning a such great cars.. If I got the money ( and I will) I will buy an evo.. but I will never ever sell my Ralliart since it was my first car, and you know.. its like your first love...
This "ghetto" things, we call them down here "mexicanadas" haha.. and yes. they are stupid, creative and ingenous things that we try.. but hey, If you remember the guy that invented color TV was mexican, and mexican government didn't believe on him.. he went to USA and then world got Color TV.. it is not that stupid ghetto mexican thing I am doing.. its because I want to do something and try different things.... I really don't need anyone to support me to make this things.. everything in life is achieved doing mistakes
I respect VWs down here.. all those 1.8turbos WOW... gotta friend with one 1.8t running at 32 psi... he owns everybody... but he doesn't know what he got below the hood.. he only knows that he has a T30, meth, exhaust and flashed ecu.. ask him what he did to achieve this... he only paid money for it... and in the other side we love doing things for ourselves.. at least we know the risks we are taking when doing a bad job.
Thank you for your comments, I really appreciate all people opinions, whether pro's or con's, I am sure to read all of your comments and understand them carefully, and believe me, I DONT DO ANYTHING to my car without searching first this forums.
Apr 2, 2012, 05:44 AM
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This idea is dangerous and a waste of time. Install looks horrendous and ghetto.
Meth kits are designed to react fast, but more importantly atomize the liquid based on the application. This is as good as poking holes in your intake so you can have as much air as possible.
The plus side is you are creative, just not at this application. Good luck.
Meth kits are designed to react fast, but more importantly atomize the liquid based on the application. This is as good as poking holes in your intake so you can have as much air as possible.
The plus side is you are creative, just not at this application. Good luck.
The best we got is Autozone and its crappy
Thanks for your compliment and yes.. I am creative as hell.. so creative we don't only make cheap crappy meth installations.. we also build our own cars from scratch.. I design them.. and other friends build also theirs..
The orange one is mine, I design the structre, but haven't had time to analyze it at home using FEA....
the guy that sits on the red structure designed that offroad vehicle all by himself all alone.
the other structure is from the little brother of my friend with help of his dad (the mechanical engineer) and some help of us.
Last edited by Tamez10; Apr 2, 2012 at 05:46 AM. Reason: added last image
Apr 2, 2012, 06:55 AM
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How hard would it be to use a gasoline injector to inject the mixture? With the 2nd R//A I plan to buy, I'd like to reuse one of the spare injectors I'll have. I could literally strip the car of it's fuel system and use it for meth injection, using the windshield washer tank and pump. All I'd need would be some kind of rpm switch, and maybe source a tank with a low level sensor and have an indicator inside the car? Then bring the car to PSI Tuning to have it tuned with the kit. I don't want a ghetto rigged system, I want something dependable and that looks clean. I'm curious if you can store 2 switch activated maps on the stock ECU (like in an SRT-4 Neon), or you need to reflash between maps each time. I could have one map for meth injection, and the other for no injection.[/quote]
You can't because meth will make corrosion and dissapear all o-rings and stuff like that... alcohols are reactive against aluminum and some rubber parts, that's why you can't only pour alcohol directly in your gas tank.. to convert a normal fuel system to an E85 system (15 percent ethanol etc) you must change your piping since alcohol would eat them. you would need to see if your injector internal material accepts alcohols and be sure to use piping friendly to alcohol.. I think your gas pump will not work since the blades that move gasoline are not alcohol friendly and become erosioned after a while. (need reference)
with your wiper fluid tank you will not get great results since it works at best about 5 to 10 psi..
If you look at a meth injector from AEM you will see that it is nothing but a machined cylinder with a thread that has a space for a tip with several electroerosioned holes or plasma from about 150cc to 360cc (need reference) (and nope this cant be machined since there is no tool that can make this small holes and patterns) and a small filter and a quick connector cap (like PTC push to connect).
The pump making 200 psi and uncompressible water/meth with such small holes provides great energy for atomization. Remember water to become atomized you need enough energy to destroy surface tension attractive forces between water molecules.
Try to find an injector from a VW Caribe.. (i know its VW and old) but they have an injector that literally pour gas at a great rate, I also have friends with a lot of Chryslers and Dodge's turbos from the 90s.. phantoms,spirits, shadows, magnums.. that use that injector to get better AFR's .. that injector might help you.
To build the circuit you might want to get some mosfet transistors attached to the original injectors signal and you can get that 5th injector open at the same time that the others will.. I wouldn't use BJT since the current may rise and their gains are so variable (though they are cheap) and never think on using relays..
You can't because meth will make corrosion and dissapear all o-rings and stuff like that... alcohols are reactive against aluminum and some rubber parts, that's why you can't only pour alcohol directly in your gas tank.. to convert a normal fuel system to an E85 system (15 percent ethanol etc) you must change your piping since alcohol would eat them. you would need to see if your injector internal material accepts alcohols and be sure to use piping friendly to alcohol.. I think your gas pump will not work since the blades that move gasoline are not alcohol friendly and become erosioned after a while. (need reference)
with your wiper fluid tank you will not get great results since it works at best about 5 to 10 psi..
If you look at a meth injector from AEM you will see that it is nothing but a machined cylinder with a thread that has a space for a tip with several electroerosioned holes or plasma from about 150cc to 360cc (need reference) (and nope this cant be machined since there is no tool that can make this small holes and patterns) and a small filter and a quick connector cap (like PTC push to connect).
The pump making 200 psi and uncompressible water/meth with such small holes provides great energy for atomization. Remember water to become atomized you need enough energy to destroy surface tension attractive forces between water molecules.
Try to find an injector from a VW Caribe.. (i know its VW and old) but they have an injector that literally pour gas at a great rate, I also have friends with a lot of Chryslers and Dodge's turbos from the 90s.. phantoms,spirits, shadows, magnums.. that use that injector to get better AFR's .. that injector might help you.
To build the circuit you might want to get some mosfet transistors attached to the original injectors signal and you can get that 5th injector open at the same time that the others will.. I wouldn't use BJT since the current may rise and their gains are so variable (though they are cheap) and never think on using relays..
