blk-majik

iTrader: (6)

also, i was way off about the speeds in 2nd and 3rd. At about 60 in 3rd before 5500 RPMS! Way more to go after that. 2nd got to 50's without burrying the red, too. /me puts down the crack pipe I think i was referencing my downshift speeds. I try not to cause my rmp's to jump over 5K when downshifting, so i dont go to 3rd until im at 60 and so on.

MitsuSkot

iTrader: (2)

Good stuff at howstuffworks.com. Thanks for that, but i am mostly curious about what would be involved in changing the final gears or where i could find info on that. More or less this is just for my own knowledge, its not like i'm going to go and rip apart my tranny, hehe...


Thanks again

blk-majik

iTrader: (6)

dunno if this helps. for RWD and its not really the same issue, but it may be usefull. its for a vet:

http://www.corvettefever.com/howto/18978/

MitsuRalliArt

The final gear ratio is in the differential. You'd have to modify or swap the differential. On some cars it can be altered in the gearbox.

You're absolutely right. FWD w/ turbo is hard to do. The SRT-4 has a long 1st gear and everything is close after that. The ralliart has a short as hell 1st gear and close ratios. This would make 1st gear worthless and 2nd gear an ideal launch gear.

Changing the final gear ratio would be the most simple thing to do, but it screws other things up. All of the gears are affected. All gears become farther appart. Right now each seqential gearshift from redline lands us at 4500 rpms. That is a pretty ideal point in the rev range. Changing the final gear ratio to make 1st gear useful would change that to 3400 rpms (before MIVEC). The problem is a little more complex than most people think.

The car is geared for n/a. I plan to do all of my mods to take advantage of these close ratios. A well built n/a car is also more reliable than a comparable turbo setup. This is not to say both can be done crappy.

My $ .02

Boeturbolancer

iTrader: (26)

It is also where driver ability really comes into play... a good driver can compensate around the gearing to some degree.

Boeturbolancer

iTrader: (26)

You can also manipulate things with tire sizes. Just be careful as driveability and speedometer readings are effected also. This goes for gearing changes. Change the gearing you'll need to recalibrate the speedo.

MitsuSkot

iTrader: (2)

How big of a change would that be if the rpms dropped 900 more from redline than with stock gears? would that be kind of overkill, or would that be something that would make first gear usefull again? I could see where dropping out of mivec would be bad, but can't the mivec be adjusted by a piggyback ecu? Please, correct me if i'm wrong

MitsuSkot

iTrader: (2)

Also, would first gear only be useless when you are launching? Would it still be used during normal daily driving? or do we buy the turbo kit and inherit a 4 speed?

MitsuRalliArt

The big point you are missing is that gears multiply torque. Every time you decrease the final drive ratio (make the gears collectively longer), Torque multiplication is sevearly affected. The 6 speed hyundai tiburon has the same problem. Most people just launch from 2nd and use the remaining 5 gears. The forced induction ralliart geared the way i mention before would not perform much better than the stock version. The torque multiplication ratio is almost halved. This seriously hurts your gains. All of this occurs just because you want to be able to launch in first gear.

Moral of the story: Keep a front wheel drive N/A car N/A unless you plan to replace the entire gearbox. The only thing you might gain is extra gas mileage.

Don't aurgue with me, I know my shizat.

MitsuSkot

iTrader: (2)

If by argue you mean "attempting to learn what one does not know by means of asking others who wield the knowledge", then yes, i am arguing.
thanks for your input MitsuRalliArt, but i'm not here to try and prove you wrong, thus the reason why i said "More or less this is just for my own knowledge,"
But i will take my questions elsewhere and stop bothering the higher powers. For that, I do apologize.
Peace.

MitsuRalliArt

I didn't say that to be mean, and I wasn't aiming that at you. Turbo'd FWD cars typically launch from 2nd gear if they weren't turbo'd to begin with. The gear box was geared for the power that the car initially came with. The Tiburon guys do it, the RSX guys do it, and even the celica guys.

If it's any consolation, the turbo'd vettes start in 3rd gear because 1st and 2nd gear just put up tire smoke.

bigdoggy_dog

iTrader: (1)

Man, you guys are making me feel like a serious baby. I hardly ever push my car that hard. Are you guys driving at would be considered "very aggressive" or do I just drive like an old woman?

blk-majik

iTrader: (6)

i dont think anyone pushes their car that hard for more than a hundred yards or so at a time when just playing around. its not like anyone does their daily to-work drive without dropping below 4500rpm the entire way Nah, I babied the hell out of this thing until about 3k miles. Its probably gonna pay off a bit in the long run. But now, as long as you dont over do it all at once, let er rip!

Myszkewicz

iTrader: (2)

If he's just talking about changing the final drive just enough to get 2-3 more MPH out of 2nd gear, it wouldn't drop the RPMs to 3400. It's not that big a change.

Besides, I could use another 5-6mph out of 5th gear. Cruising at 74 to stay out of MIVEC range isn't cutting it in Chicago. Traffic here moves.

Anyway, a better (although more expensive) solution would be to change the gears themselves. There were several gear change options available for DSMs, taller 1st and 2nd gears, taller 5th gears, straight-cut gears in any flavor you could want, etc.. Who's to say that someone won't do the same for the RA?

MitsuSkot

iTrader: (2)

So lets say that. 5 more mph out of 2nd gear to land us a little over 60 right before redline. If the sequential gearshift currently lands us at 4500 rpms from redline, i seriously doubt we would drop under mivec with that minimal of a gear change. For the averagely tuned N/A car(extra 30-40 hp), this would seem beneficial to make the gears slightly wider.
Also, would the gears get gradually wider if the final gear is changed? what i mean is, if 2nd gear had approx. 5 mph added to the top after the final gear change, would that reflect a larger addition to the higher gears? say 7mph more to 3rd, 9mph more to 4th, and 12 mph more to 5th?

I understand i started this thread asking about turbo stuff, but now the N/A stuff is catching my interest.
Sorry for the minor topic change