wild_child

iTrader: (1)

same thing here use your brain don't abuse it.

sillypuddy

iTrader: (1)

I drive under 3500 rpm in the morning until the car is up to operating temps and the drivetrain is all nice and smooth before letting it rip

-joe

Scarf Face

iTrader: (1)

by the way, the manual (for the ralliart, at least), says to warm up the engine until the temp needle starts to move. which is what i do. well, and if im not rushing, i wait until it clears the 'C', just to be safe

now for the big question... how important do you think it is to warm up the engine to its operating temperature before you start driving? obviously people who think it is very important will warm it up, and those who dont will not, but im looking for facts about warming up and its effect on performance and safety, and anything related to that.

captain150

Running rich has very little to do with it. Fuel injected cars run rich ONLY DURING cranking. As SOON as that engine starts, the oxygen sensor(s) adjust the mixture so that the amount of fuel/air getting burned is at the proper ratio. The reason why you need more fuel when an engine is cold? Because the fuel condenses on the cold manifold and cylinders. Cold fuel injected cars do run rich, but the cylinders don't see a rich mixture due to the condensing fuel.
The exaust pitch sounds different mostly because of the cold valvetrain and moving parts. They cause differently pitched resonances when they are cold. The RA's cold exaust sound is more noticable.

As for FACTS on warm up VS not warming up. It's the same argument as synthetic oil VS non-synthetic. IMO you almost never need to warm up an engine. The oil is flowing, the coolant is flowing, there is some extra wear, you can minimize this extra wear by driving at low rpm until it warms up.
Everyone has different views on the topic and no matter what biased sites people here give you, there is no TRUE and HONEST proof of which is better. It is known that idling a gasoline engine is worse for it than having it under load, but whether or not this makes much difference is not known.

ralliartracer

iTrader: (1)

I dont think its necessary to warm up your car unless you have turbo, or plan on driving hard right off the bat. . . Thats just me.

Myszkewicz

iTrader: (2)

That depends entirely on the type of O2 sensor used. My last car had a 2-wire (unheated) sensor, so it took several minutes of driving the car to warm the sensor up to operating temperature before it would work. I haven't checked the RA's sensor(s). If it's got 3 or 4 wires, it'll warm up faster than the 2-wire kind, but it still takes more than a second of two. ALL cars, as far as I've ever known, have had some kind of choke function on them, so they run pig-rich at startup, then adjust to a proper mix as the engine and sensors warm up.

Unless it's cold enough to freeze the ***** off a brass monkey, I start my car, idle it for 15-20 seconds, and start driving. I keep the rpms under 3500 for the first 10 miles, at which point it's fully warmed up, and I'm on the Interstate on-ramp.

It hasn't been that cold in WI yet. It's only gotten down in the teens. I'm still running around in shorts.

captain150

No fuel injected car, from TBI to MPFI to SPFI has a choke. A choke is a mechanical flap covering the carburetor venturies. The injectors have a "cold cranking" mode which injects a lot of fuel to start a cold engine. Seconds after a succesful start, the computer takes over and adjusts for the tempurature, rpm, airflow without the O2 sensor(s) yet. The O2 sensor(s), once heated up, fine tune the mixture. The RA probably has 2 sensors, one before and one after the cat. converter.
If my old car (82 Chevy piece of crap) had TBI injection (came out in the model I had in 1984) then it would have no choke and, at least in theory, would have the same system as our Lancers. Now of course it would have had TBI (i'm guessing you know what TBI is? If not then the discussion is over, you need to have some basic knowledge of fuel injection to understand how it meters fuel). SPFI is fairly different than TBI for obvious reasons, but the basic operation is similar. TBI is the closest thing to a carburetor that an injection system can get.
BTW no car has run "pig-rich" as you say since the early 1970s. When emissions laws came into effect, chokes opened sooner, mixtures were leaned out etc. Fuel injection mixtures are always tuned as perfect as possible. With a properly working fuel injection system, it will NEVER run rich, from -40C to +40C you will NEVER see that black smoke coming out of the tail pipe. You are confusing a rich mixture for running rich. Running rich means the engine is BURNING an excess of fuel. A cold engine's mixture has more fuel in it, but only because the fuel is condensing. The mixture getting burned is not rich.
Even lacking some maintenance (clogged air filter for example) a fuel injection system STILL won't run rich. The injectors don't let out as much fuel, to make up for the decreased air coming in. People here always talk about "oh your car must be running rich" when a fuel injection system cannot run rich without setting the CEL. If the car starts running rich, the computer adjusts it. If it cannot adjust it, it sets the CEL. Modern cars have mixtures that are so precise it is amazing, compared to carburetors.

ThyPunko_PR

iTrader: (7)

Hmmmm....If you open you glove box and reach for your owner manual go to the section 3 Features and controls (In my case for a Sporback Ralliart is page 3-22). The you can read the tips for starting section:

"The engine is warmed up enough for driving when the coolant temperature gauge indicator starts to move..."


Thats it boys and girls...nothing more....nothing less....so please take your time and read your manual at least one time!!!

sillypuddy

iTrader: (1)

it also says we can use 87 octane gas.. which is another big debate

87 vs 92 octane
synethic vs. dino juice
warming up vs. non-warming up

always a religious debate

-joe

evilralliart

Thypunko_PR

thats a nice color for a ralliart sportback...la mia es lightning yellow...not too many people own a sportback ralliart .. y ya mitsubishi no la va a hacer mas, lo que hay son ma que 3000 de esas.

(i never move my ralliart until the idle RPM drops)

captain150

Doesn't matter WRT this topic. For maintenance and operation of the car, ya the manual is best. But the manual does not cover the range of climates that it should. Wait until the coolant gauge starts moving in Canada? With it idling you would be waiting 10 minutes. Sure with my old car I would idle it, but only because it was carbureted and was IMPOSSIBLE to drive until it warmed up. As soon as the gear engaged it stalled. If it was really cold, it would stall unless I left it on high idle. With fuel injection, there is never a reason to warm up the engine first (IMO). Like I said, the oil is flowing, the coolant is flowing, a little extra wear is happening, which is why you want that engine warmed up as fast as possible. You think idling a cold engine isn't wearing it out? You want to keep the cold running to a MINIMUM time. Driving the car warms it up the fastest, doesn't WASTE gas (you are moving towards where you are going, instead of having it sit there running) and is better for the engine, IMO.

Scarf Face

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the engine is cold, but wouldn't it be better for it to be cold and idling at 1000rpm in neutral, rather than being cold and going at 2-3K under load? It will warm up faster, but wouldn't it also wear out faster?

ilovecb23

iTrader: (13)

i always have warmed up my car first, dont know why, i just do

captain150

Common misconception and no, not much more wear happens at 2-3 grand. Now, if you were to start redlining it right off the bat, that wouldn't be good. But easy driving, at low RPM is good for the engine. Under load is in fact better for the engine. Gasoline engines do not like to idle, everything from the piston rings to the valve train work better under some load.
It's similar to a VCR, the wear on the video heads=amount of time tape is in contact with the spinning drum. It doesn't matter if the tape is paused, playing or rewinding against the drum at 1 foot per second, the same amount of wear is happening. An engine is wearing MUCH faster whenever it is cold, either at idle or 3000RPM, you want the engine warm as quickly as possible, then there is nearly no wear happening from idle all the way to redline. The fact that it is idling does not mean there isn't much wear happening. An engine is wearing a lot more whenever it is cold, at any rpm.

evilralliart

captain 150 , same here....if iwas gonna wait for the temp to go up ill be late for everything....im in upstate NY and my temp moves up after driving 3-4miles , only between jun and aug goes up fast, thats why i just wait for the rpm to drop ,then i go.