So your sitting at MMNA headquaters in the boardroom...
Dec 14, 2005, 07:50 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by o2thag
There have been talks here in canada that Mitsubishi is bringing an AWD Lancer RA Turbo to Canada Jan 2007. It will be priced just under the price of a WRX. It's suppose to have the styling of an Evo X, which is suppose to come to Canada the following year of Jan 2008. Now I got all this info from someone who works at one of the Mitsu dealers here. Him and other employees have gone to Mitsu conferences where they talked about future models. They also say that this RA Turbo will have more power then WRX. Now personaly I think this is possible considering there is no EVO in Canada yet but there is a WRX here and a WRX STI. I belive Mitsubishi wants to be able to take away some of this market from Subaru. By the way I do see many WRX's driving around.
Hmmmm... looks like you heard almost the same thing I did. This is looking more and more like solid info. I didn't hear anything about 4WD though... neither that it would be or not be there. One of the guys did mention some competition with the WRX though, so it might make sense that they would bring the 4WD over to the RA. But then, there's no way it's gonna be as cheap as I was told it would be... unless there's an option you can op-out of. But it wouldn't make much sense to buy a car with a rear wheels drive shaft tunnel and no drive shaft in it...
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Dec 14, 2005, 07:55 AM
#49
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If Mitsubishi wanted to compete with Subaru then I would alter the RA. People call it a mini-Evo already, might as well make it one.
The point is, what does Mitsu have to compete with the WRX? The concept Eclipse RA could be a candidate. But lets keep this in the Lancer line. I'm looking at Mitsu's site...didn't realize they ditched the LS. Which if I hadn't saw that I would have said. I wouldn't change a lot about the ES, primarily to keep it under the $15k mark, but at the same time it should compete with a younger customer like the Scions xA and xB. Which goes without saying they need a redesign. Some more aggressive and rally inspired. Probably a mix of the 00 Impreza's and 02 Lancers.
ES (standard features)
2.0L, 140HP (increase of the weaker 120HP)
FWD, 5-speed, 15-inch hubcaps
Almost everything their site lists as Pkg a standard feature.
MSRP: $15,000
O-Z Rally I would give the RA's specs and engine...with a few extra horses crammed in.
2.4L MIVEC, 170HP
FWD, 5-speed, 16-inch OZ rims
Basically make the OZ compete with the base model Impreza 2.5i which has 173HP, 16-inch rims and AWD standard.
MSRP: $18,000
And finally the Ralliart...
200+ turbo 2.4L turbo engine. The WRX is at 230 so I say somewhere around there. The point is Mitsu needs something more between the regular RA and Evo. People that want turbo power but aren't able to afford an Evo.
6-speed AWD 17-inch rims.
MSRP: $23,000
So to restate the questions posed in the original post...
1: You're right, the RA is not an Evo. But I would still increase it's power between what it currently is and Evo specs and keep the exterior appearance of the ES, OZ, and RA basically the same.
2: AWD. This is a must if you have turbo in my opinion. And since trying to compete with Subaru and all their cars come standard with AWD. However I would keep the ES and OZ as FWD.
3: Turbo duh.
4: See 2 and 3. Make the RA competition for the WRX and the OZ compete with the 2.5i by giving it the current RA's engine specs.
5: Reengineered MIVEC for a factory turbo.
6: Styling wise... 17-inch rims, but just little stuff to set it apart from the ES and OZ.
7: Interior...**** I like the images you posted, so go with that. Though make the intergrated GPS an option.
8: $23k-$24k for factory standard.
The point is, what does Mitsu have to compete with the WRX? The concept Eclipse RA could be a candidate. But lets keep this in the Lancer line. I'm looking at Mitsu's site...didn't realize they ditched the LS. Which if I hadn't saw that I would have said. I wouldn't change a lot about the ES, primarily to keep it under the $15k mark, but at the same time it should compete with a younger customer like the Scions xA and xB. Which goes without saying they need a redesign. Some more aggressive and rally inspired. Probably a mix of the 00 Impreza's and 02 Lancers.
ES (standard features)
2.0L, 140HP (increase of the weaker 120HP)
FWD, 5-speed, 15-inch hubcaps
Almost everything their site lists as Pkg a standard feature.
MSRP: $15,000
O-Z Rally I would give the RA's specs and engine...with a few extra horses crammed in.
2.4L MIVEC, 170HP
FWD, 5-speed, 16-inch OZ rims
Basically make the OZ compete with the base model Impreza 2.5i which has 173HP, 16-inch rims and AWD standard.
MSRP: $18,000
And finally the Ralliart...
200+ turbo 2.4L turbo engine. The WRX is at 230 so I say somewhere around there. The point is Mitsu needs something more between the regular RA and Evo. People that want turbo power but aren't able to afford an Evo.
6-speed AWD 17-inch rims.
MSRP: $23,000
So to restate the questions posed in the original post...
1: You're right, the RA is not an Evo. But I would still increase it's power between what it currently is and Evo specs and keep the exterior appearance of the ES, OZ, and RA basically the same.
2: AWD. This is a must if you have turbo in my opinion. And since trying to compete with Subaru and all their cars come standard with AWD. However I would keep the ES and OZ as FWD.
3: Turbo duh.
4: See 2 and 3. Make the RA competition for the WRX and the OZ compete with the 2.5i by giving it the current RA's engine specs.
5: Reengineered MIVEC for a factory turbo.
6: Styling wise... 17-inch rims, but just little stuff to set it apart from the ES and OZ.
7: Interior...**** I like the images you posted, so go with that. Though make the intergrated GPS an option.
8: $23k-$24k for factory standard.
Last edited by LancerMMC; Dec 14, 2005 at 08:00 AM.
Dec 14, 2005, 08:40 AM
#50
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I know a lot of you are saying Mitsubishi needs to do "this" because Subaru does "that", but if you look at sales history, Mitsubishi has done a better job so far. I'm talking about Lancers vs. Imprezas only. I don't know how it breaks down between 2.5RS, WRXs and STi's but:
In 2004 Mitsubishi sold 41,706 Lancers.
In 2004 Subaru sold 32,209 Imprezas.
I personally thing the Evo should be sold one way, and that's all the way. The different model mix they have now gives most people what they want. Sure, they could get rid of the Brembos, the Recaros, the FMIC, cut back on power and perhaps make a detuned baby Evo for 25K and call it an RA, but I think all that will do is take sales away from the Evo.
In 2004 Mitsubishi sold 41,706 Lancers.
In 2004 Subaru sold 32,209 Imprezas.
I personally thing the Evo should be sold one way, and that's all the way. The different model mix they have now gives most people what they want. Sure, they could get rid of the Brembos, the Recaros, the FMIC, cut back on power and perhaps make a detuned baby Evo for 25K and call it an RA, but I think all that will do is take sales away from the Evo.
Last edited by GPTourer; Dec 14, 2005 at 08:46 AM.
Dec 14, 2005, 08:50 AM
#51
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I don't think it's a corporate "needs" but more a image "needs" thing. I know that the Lancer seems to be frowned on, even by the people who should be advocates of it (even many Evo owners) while the regular WRX enjoys a great deal of respect, despite the fact that off the lot it feels like a dog.
Mitsu needs to get that "young and sporty" image back, and a decently priced, good looking, and quick Lancer will do that for them. I don't want to devalue the Evo at all, that's why I feel that the Ralliart should be FWD and have a turbo, not take all the the Evo's styling cues, and shave about 10k off of the price of a IX (the RS can still exist for the people who hate comforts I suppose) and that would fill the BIG gap between the RA and the Evo.
Mitsu needs to get that "young and sporty" image back, and a decently priced, good looking, and quick Lancer will do that for them. I don't want to devalue the Evo at all, that's why I feel that the Ralliart should be FWD and have a turbo, not take all the the Evo's styling cues, and shave about 10k off of the price of a IX (the RS can still exist for the people who hate comforts I suppose) and that would fill the BIG gap between the RA and the Evo.
Dec 14, 2005, 09:04 AM
#52
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How much more image can there possibly be then in the EVO?
No matter what you do with the lower line cars, poeple are going to always ask if it is the top dog you own. If you have a Mustang, people will talk about how great Cobras are. If you have a GS-T, people will go on and on about how great GSX's are. I'm sure all the 2.5RS and WRX guys get tired of saying, "no it isn't an STi, but I could make it just as fast or faster."
The point is it doesn't matter what you do to an RA, as long as the EVO is better, it will get the press attention and the others will be called "baby Evos" "Evo jrs." "Evo-wannabes" whatever. Who cares. The price point is 19-22K, we just want them to make the best car possible at that price point, while not sacrificing too many things to go in one direction. IMO, The SRT-4 is all about power, quality and features be damned. The RSX Type S is more towards the middle, but doesn't sell well enough. It is tough finding the right combination of features and performance in this class.
No matter what you do with the lower line cars, poeple are going to always ask if it is the top dog you own. If you have a Mustang, people will talk about how great Cobras are. If you have a GS-T, people will go on and on about how great GSX's are. I'm sure all the 2.5RS and WRX guys get tired of saying, "no it isn't an STi, but I could make it just as fast or faster."
The point is it doesn't matter what you do to an RA, as long as the EVO is better, it will get the press attention and the others will be called "baby Evos" "Evo jrs." "Evo-wannabes" whatever. Who cares. The price point is 19-22K, we just want them to make the best car possible at that price point, while not sacrificing too many things to go in one direction. IMO, The SRT-4 is all about power, quality and features be damned. The RSX Type S is more towards the middle, but doesn't sell well enough. It is tough finding the right combination of features and performance in this class.
Last edited by GPTourer; Dec 14, 2005 at 09:09 AM.
Dec 14, 2005, 09:11 AM
#53
I think that if they do make a Turbo RA it should have styling towards the EVO X, just like the WRX is styled like the STI. I think that the turbo RA would sell very well because it would bring it to compete with WRX, srt-4, Cobalt, Ion Redline, civic SI. When mitsu released the RA it was able to compete with the cars in it's class and at that time there weren't many cars just over 200hp. Now it seems like everyone has a car that has 200+ hp and that leaves the RA trailing. So I think that mitsu will release a turbo lancer that will be able to compete in this "just over 200" class. Another thing is that if mitsu plans on bumping the hp in the EVO X to 300+, the 230hp or so for a RA doesn't seem like anything unrealistic.
Dec 14, 2005, 09:14 AM
#54
Evolving Member
Originally Posted by BLKRalliArt04
But Mitsu DEFINTELY needs to beefen up their choice of add on accessories. Look at a scion's accessories, they have everything from superchargers to AEM intakes to aluminum pedals to "performance" mufflers. We have door sills and muffler tips. 
No, Really. The Lancer is becomming popular with people who want to modify thier cars. Get on board and offer them some good parts that will keep the warrenty intact and make some money on the deal. Then you will have happier customers and more profits.
You could most likely start be testing then approving some of the parts that are already offered and then have dealers install them. The extra revenue would help RRM and the like and help them to develop more parts. I could really be a win/win for everyone.
If a factory turbo appeared with the OK to get by smog and carry the warrenty there would be people out there that would jump on it that wiil not now.
-Joe
P.S. I want more Sportbacks!!! I've had several people ask me about mine ( a couple at the dealership). Nobody knew they were out there.
You need to get better about advertising. An ad just showing all the diferent levels of Lancers available might be a really good idea. It would bring in some people who don't know what's out.
Ok, at least bring over one Evo Wagon and leave it on my driveway. PLAESE.
Dec 14, 2005, 09:45 AM
#56
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SCREW AWD AND FWD
Tell mitsu to make it RWD + NA 2.4L or bolt on a turbo for kicks.
A rwd mitsu car will tear up the market. What tuners need is another rwd vehicle similar to the is300, 85-86 Corolla GTS, or 240sx.
Tell mitsu to make it RWD + NA 2.4L or bolt on a turbo for kicks.
A rwd mitsu car will tear up the market. What tuners need is another rwd vehicle similar to the is300, 85-86 Corolla GTS, or 240sx.
Last edited by mr96gsx408; Dec 14, 2005 at 09:48 AM.
Dec 14, 2005, 09:57 AM
#57
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RWD is a pipe dream, I mean really - we are talking about a platform that has to support Mitsu's cheapest vehicle as well as their performance car. RWD cars don't do so hot at rallying either.
The only way to do a RWD car would be to develop a new platform. That would take, like, a billion dollars. Then it would probably only be for one car. A DOHC MIVEC head on a 3.8L V6 and then call it a 3800GT or whatever. Might as well twin turbo it for kicks, then charge 50 grand. Oh yeah, I can see that happening.
I also think bolt on factory supplied turbo kits are out of the question. Superchargers are easier and less labor to install, and less possible to goof up and don't mess with emmisions. No manufacturer has ever done a bolt on turbo to my knowledge in a common car.
The only way to do a RWD car would be to develop a new platform. That would take, like, a billion dollars. Then it would probably only be for one car. A DOHC MIVEC head on a 3.8L V6 and then call it a 3800GT or whatever. Might as well twin turbo it for kicks, then charge 50 grand. Oh yeah, I can see that happening.
I also think bolt on factory supplied turbo kits are out of the question. Superchargers are easier and less labor to install, and less possible to goof up and don't mess with emmisions. No manufacturer has ever done a bolt on turbo to my knowledge in a common car.
Last edited by GPTourer; Dec 14, 2005 at 10:03 AM.
Dec 14, 2005, 10:02 AM
#58
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The way I see it, when a car company makes a car they have to look at who they're going to compete with and what kind of customer they're trying to attract. Now considering that both Mitsubishi and Subaru have strong ties to the world of rally racing it's a natural choice to put the Lancer and Impreza head-to-head. GPT you cited that Lancers have had more sold units than Impreza. But Mitsu also throws in all sorts of rebates and incentives which kill resale value, while Subaru cars have outstanding resale. It might not seem that important, but try to trade in your RA and you'll see what I mean.
That's the difference o2thag, the Evo looks completely different than the ES/OZ/RA while the 2.5i/WRX/STI all share the same body style.
That's the difference o2thag, the Evo looks completely different than the ES/OZ/RA while the 2.5i/WRX/STI all share the same body style.
Dec 14, 2005, 10:03 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by GPTourer
RWD is a pipe dream, I mean really - we are talking about a platform that has to support Mitsu's cheapest vehicle as well as their performance car. RWD cars don't do so hot at rallying either.
The only way to do a RWD car would be to develop a new platform. That would take, like, a billion dollars. Then it would probably only be for one car. A DOHC MIVEC head on a 3.8L V6 and then call it a 3800GT or whatever. Might as well twin turbo it for kicks, then charge 50 grand. Oh yeah, I can see that happening.
The only way to do a RWD car would be to develop a new platform. That would take, like, a billion dollars. Then it would probably only be for one car. A DOHC MIVEC head on a 3.8L V6 and then call it a 3800GT or whatever. Might as well twin turbo it for kicks, then charge 50 grand. Oh yeah, I can see that happening.
Yeah, everybody daydreams from time to time... 
Not gonna happen though, sorry. 
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Dec 14, 2005, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LancerMMC
The way I see it, when a car company makes a car they have to look at who they're going to compete with and what kind of customer they're trying to attract. Now considering that both Mitsubishi and Subaru have strong ties to the world of rally racing it's a natural choice to put the Lancer and Impreza head-to-head. GPT you cited that Lancers have had more sold units than Impreza. But Mitsu also throws in all sorts of rebates and incentives which kill resale value, while Subaru cars have outstanding resale. It might not seem that important, but try to trade in your RA and you'll see what I mean.
That's the difference o2thag, the Evo looks completely different than the ES/OZ/RA while the 2.5i/WRX/STI all share the same body style.
That's the difference o2thag, the Evo looks completely different than the ES/OZ/RA while the 2.5i/WRX/STI all share the same body style.
Well, in any case... the new Subies look (the ugly front) is so awful that it shouldn't be that hard for Mitsubishi to take the fight to them.
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