ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Ummm...no, there's more to brakes than the size of the rotor. A BBK won't improve stopping distance because in an emergency stop (as they use for determining braking distance), heat isn't an issue. Pads are a major factor as are tires. The Evo has bigger pads, better material and better tires. A BBK on its own has zero effect on stopping distance and the same thing can be achieved with new pads and tires. SCC tested this, as have people on NASIOC and probably on here too.

4g64fiero

iTrader: (1)

Saying contact area doesnt matter in an emergency stop is just ignorant. Thats not a personal attack, I think you reached a little too far to defend your point even though its not yours originally. Rotor and pad size as well as clamping force and fluid temps/quality are all very important. As well as the type of pads and brake fluid and tires. Hell, no one has even compared brake master cylinders yet. Is the RA the same as the evo X or the gts? I would assume its the same as the EVO X. I know the fluid is the same, and I know the pads are made by the same company. The only parts left that are different after that is the tires and the brakes/rotors/different sized pads yet it stops WAY quicker. Lets see SCC explain that.

Large brakes arent only for cooling. It would be interesting to see some brembos on a RA. I was hoping there would be some OEM bolt on brake parts for it. It takes way to long for this car to stop.

lookslikeanevo

iTrader: (23)

...no

you dont have to be an expert to know where the cars power band is

you just have to know the car

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Rotor size has little to no effect on stopping distance. Pad size likely does but unless you're significantly increasing the size of the pad (rarely the case), you won't notice a major difference. As an obvious example, the current 09 WRX has 2 pot front calipers, I have 4 pot. The stopping distance is roughly the same.
Clamping force is fine but again, there are better and cheaper ways to improve stopping distance. If you're going to increase the clamping force, you need to make other changes like an improved master cylinder.
Companies make many different kinds of pads for different applications, to say that since the same company makes them, they're the same is silly. Hawk HPS pads suck while the HP+ are great.
Tires are a major, major, major factor. What contacts the road, the rotors or the tires?
SCC has had many articles on brakes, I suggest you read them. You can even read the many FAQs and articles posted on NASIOC and Evom.
BBKs are about cooling, even the companies that make them say as such. Some good pads, decent fluid and new tires would be more than enough for post people. I actually track my car (you know, as opposed to talking about this, that and the other) and my upgrades are Ferodo DS2500s, Amsoil brake fluid and Powerslot rotors. The only reason I have the rotors is because I fubared my stockers. I have had zero braking issues and I can stop significantly better than stock even on winter tires.
Sure the thoughts are not mine originally but it's pretty hard to have unique thoughts and be right at the same time.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

We're also not talking about a freakin' Honda, the powerband on the WRX is pretty fat, you basically have power from 3000 RPM to 6500 RPM. It doesn't take a superstar to work with a 3500 RPM powerband.

4g64fiero

iTrader: (1)

I guess Heavy Duty Ford Trucks should just use the same brakes as the focus because they stop the same.


You will not win this argument, I dont care what forums you say say what. Its just plain wrong and there is a reason SCC went under. And yes tires are the limiting factor. But thats not what you said originally.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Yes because that's a relevant comparison. How much does a Ford truck weigh? Yes you have to increase the size of the braking components as the size of the vehicle increases. Why? Heat. You could put Focus brakes on a heavy duty truck but you'd overweight and overwhelm the brakes very very quickly. With the Ralliart, there are places to start before you go spending thousands on a BBK. Pads are an obvious option, as are tires.
As for the e-thuggery, as I have said again and again, feel free to actually do the research rather than act like a punk. SCC had real data to show, you have what, attitude?
Here ya go big guy, read these and them come back with attitude.
http://www.ffcobra.com/FAQ/brakes3.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=368072

4g64fiero

iTrader: (1)

WOW OMFG that first article directly states that the brakes convert mechanical energy to heat to stop the car.

Guess what bigger rotors do better?! And thats in ANY situation, its not like they have certain times where thats not what they do like you claim. You are clearly wrong according to your own cited sources. Good day sir.

Seriously, you are out gunned here. As far as ethuggery goes, you would be annoyed to as I sure you believe you have a right to be.

But I see why you think what you do. It also states in the artical that if you arent heating the brakes up alot then you dont need bigger rotors. Well what happens when you get some decent tires on a RA? Bam, the need for bigger brakes occurs as well as better fluids and such.

You ask me what data you have and you lead me to an e-artical for your reference. Great for you.

I'm done here. I seriously considered your thesis and posted it on a couple of other boards and it was only met with laughter.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Yes, and actually read the article. Bigger rotors dissipate heat, sure, but colder rotors does not equate to lower stopping distances. Have you ever listened to racers talk? Have you ever wondered why they're brutal to their brakes on the warm up lap? Pads need some heat to work properly, ice cold rotors are a bad thing.
Yep, I sure am outgunned what with 31 posts and all . Feel free to post my responses on more Civic boards, I'm sure they'll tell you I'm wrong and everyone needs BBKs just as huge wings are great on FWD cars.

lookslikeanevo

iTrader: (23)

and only putting a bigger rotor on the same caliper, will not do any better... if you are going to compare stuff at least do relevant things...

actually some bbks do not necessarily offer more surface area on the rotors, most of them use a bigger rotor in order to utilize more pistons under the caliper for more pad coverage,

more pistons = more friction = more pad that is spread over the surface of the rotor

so in essence your not absolutely correct either, and the only way to absolutely get the maximum braking efficiency would be to get a full mix of what both of you are taking about...no need to slam each other, amby sure didnt

lookslikeanevo

iTrader: (23)

wings on fwd cars do matter mmmmmkay?

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Here we go, more data.
Stoptech BBKs on a 350Z. Notice how even with the larger rotors, the distances are the same. Yep, you sure showed me.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm
Same basic test with an Acura RSX, again, proof that I'm wrong .
http://www.modified.com/roadtests/07...est/index.html
Naturally you're going to dismiss these experiments given that you have mountains of data to support your claims. Oh wait.....

4g64fiero

iTrader: (1)

In my FIRST post about this I clearly said all the factors he mention as well as the point I was trying to drive home here. I know he is right about some things, He just thinks that since changing the pads on his WRX helped so much that no other car in the world will benefit from larger brakes.

Also, why would you EVER change the size of the rotor without also changing the calipers? A BBK comes with both. NOONE ever said that they were just changing the rotors.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Yes, but I was making a ricer joke .

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

As my post showed, with real world data, a street car has nothing to gain from a BBK. Unless you're slamming on the brakes from 100 MPH 10 times in a row, a BBK is an absolute waste of time. Tires are a far better investment for braking. If you actually race the car, a BBK is a good idea but if you actually raced the car, you wouldn't be asking this question or getting the facts wrong.