4g64fiero

iTrader: (1)

OMFGBBQ

You just proved yourself wrong again. Their tests clearly showed the biggest brakes stopping fastest. WTF is the issue here? What are you trying to prove??

http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm

Do YOU even read the **** you reference?

PS I am glad to see you shift your argument from track performance to casual daily driving,Mr. "I actually track my car".

xstyme

^

My new favorite expression! "OMFGBBQ".

jazket

iTrader: (1)

LOL, yah that's a good one...

Hum and btw, guys I was refering to the WHOLE DAMN BRAKE KIT, not just a rotor upgrade, or a pad upgrade, or a caliper upgrade, or tire upgrade, or brake fluid change.... the whole damn thing, as they sell it, with cables and rotors and pads and calipers;

I believe they sell the WHOLE upgrade kit for a reason? Or I'd assume Mitsu shouldn't be spending money on equipping the Evos with a BBK since a brake fluid and pads is all that's needed on a regular lancer (GTS) braking system... But again, Evo's are supposed to be tracked any day of the week

damn, you all start a discussion out of thin effing air!

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Clearly you have no scientific experience. The variation between the runs is insignificant. Do you honestly think 1 foot is significant? Are you willing to spend thousands to improve stopping distance by 1 foot?
Directly from the second article
Perhaps you should read the articles rather than skim them looking for numbers.
My first statements
Looks like the results verify my statements. A BBK is useless on the road and for many people, useless on the track.

The data I'm showing is for full upgrades. As I have said again and again, and show results for, a full upgrade (as offered by Stoptech) is a waste of money unless you track the car. Good pads, good fluid and better tires are a much better investment. Mitsubishi offers Brembos because the Evo is a supposedly trackable car from the factory, people are constantly arguing that it's the crazy race car of the group.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

i didn't read through the whole BBK argument. If some one cares my opinion, here it is.

Yes, bigger breaks are better, if they can utilize they power. Meaning there are at least the right tires to put the breaking force down to the surface./then you might want to have a suspension set up right , but that is a whole different level/
Other words you will not have additional benefit at the first emergency stop, if you are running snow tires in the summer.
Then gradually will have benefit over the smaller breaks any way, since the BBK will not fade as easy like the stock or smaller ones. Aslo the high speed braking is dramatically better. Example like 100-40 mph or something like that.

As soon as you get real grippy tires like the Toyo R888's or similar , then you will easily notice the BBK benefits over the smaller breaks.

If you actually want to have wider stickier tires or bigger rims then stock , then also the BBK will shine over the OEM.
Fact even if you will have a heavier wheel set up vs the stock one , the break upgrades are a good idea. At least the pads and fluids and break lines .

What i mean by heavier, is either a bigger rims and of course tires, or even a wider rims and tirs or the combination of that.

Also i dont know if the OEM RA wheel spec , will clear the Factory X brembo's.
I'm sure by now some one tried it at least.

I think it would be a good idea to make that upgrade. I'm sure you can find some oem X break set up for sale for relatively cheap. Compere to the other BBK options.

Rob

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Check the data above Rob, even in high speed stops, stock brake systems work just fine. For a single stop, heat isn't an issue, tire grip is the major factor. If you did a 100 MPH stop followed by a 60 MPH stop followed by another 100 MPH, a BBK would show a noticeable difference but what people are talking about here qualifies as a single, one-pop shot braking test. If you're running R-compounds, you're increasing the grip which means more brake torque is required to lock them which I can see putting more stress on the brakes but even that I'm not completely convinced on.
Something to consider is whether the OEM brakes are fixed or floating calipers and what the Evo setup is. This, combined with hub differences, could result in some pad knockback fun.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

i run same wheel set up same tires, luckily with oem and Project Mu BBk set up.
The difference was night and day. I can lock my wheels at 120mph in the summer with the Mu's. The oem locking started waaaaay under that. at least a half. Not to mention the fading differences. Which was not existent with the Mu's./evo IX RS/

But if you are not tracking a car and you running stock rims with lesser then R compound tires, the BBK will not give you benefits unless you are racing a long period of times. Where the fading issue will come up sooner or later.
As you said with one emergency breaking scenario will have no real benefit over the oem. But that is why they test the OEM breaks like that. Because it is easy to have a "good" results like that.

You have a very good point there, when you said something like this:
For street and for light racing the more beneficial approach to having a better stopping results on the car is the following; have a better , tires, pads , fluids and lines. IF you have a stock size rims and tires.
No argument there. For that the BBK is a simply over shoot and unnecessary.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Locking could be the result of something else. With the project Mu, you're changing the pads as well. I don't know what you mean by locking anyways, locking isn't a speed dependent phenomenon, it's a result of surpassing the brakes (or rather the tires). You can lock up the tires at 20 MPH if you slam them hard enough.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

it think i wasnt clear then. Locking the wheels to stop them at high speed , need a lots of force. Which the BBK certainly have. There for the breaking force to slow the car down is much bigger. There for a stopping power is much bigger too.
Yes you can lock the wheels at 20mph , but you can do a same at 120????
That is just a demonstration of the force of the break set up.Nothing more.
Also as i said , same wheels and tires- weather.

Just for the record , my oem set up means , OEM Brembo calipper , Slotted rotors, Hawk HP + pads, Tecna fit SS break lines, and Motul RF 600 break fluid. So its not exactly oem thought.

And still the BBK destroyed the "OEM" performance. There is a good reason why they make them. Also , to having more piston is really beneficial. Because they are more evenly apply the the force on the pads.

I think thats all i want to say here.
as i said its my opinion and experience from life. Nothing more or less. Too late now anyway .

Cheers Rob

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Yes I can lock the tires at 120 MPH if I absolutely slam on the brakes, braking force is completely irrelevant of speed since its a product of the pressure in the system, not the speed of the wheels.
If you check one of the links I provided, the schpeel on brake piston number and force is contradicted.
Manufacturers will make anything they think they can sell. I'm not saying BBKs are useless but they're applicable to only a small fraction of the people who buy them. Most like the bling and pride factor.

4g64fiero

iTrader: (1)

Amby I agree to disagree. Quite frankly, I didnt even read your replies as I have my own experiences with big brakes and others that confirm my beliefs for me. You can pick and pull whatever articles you want. If they ever disagree with me, then they are wrong. Its not even that I'm not open to the idea that there are upgrades to a stock system you can do, its just that one should never underestimate the greater mechancal advantage having larger rotors will give. Sure, there is a great heat wicking advantage, but there is also more surface area to increase friction. Whats the #1 aspect of a brake pad? The coefficient of friction. For the same f with more surface area you WILL have more heat... combined with the extra mechanical advantage, you WILL stop faster all things being optimal. And who is to say the brakes arent warmed up on these cars when the editors test them?

I have read everything I can far before I countered your claim. I have some private testing of my own with this. The dsm guys switch to EVO brakes and never look back. The 240sx guys use 300z brakes with huge success. Luckily for your WRX you had great calipers from the start. You imply from your experiences that the only advantage a BBK has is the larger rotor. Well that may be true for you but noone else. Brakes arent magic. Biasing them properly is.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Lol, the arrogance is outstanding, naturally anything that disagrees with you is wrong.
Directly from the articles
No mention of pad size. Another article (that I provided) has this to say
Of course what does physics have against your own, clearly unbiased opinion since you're always right?
As I said before, there are more to brakes than just rotor size or caliper size. There could be other reasons why Evo brakes are better than the stock DSM brakes.
You can agree to disagree just as someone has every right in the world to believe the world is flat and 2+2=5.

4g64fiero

iTrader: (1)

LOLICIDE

I said the Coefficient of friction was factored in to the brake pad. The AREA of the brake pad is used as a factor in the the coefficient of friction before its even used in the rest of the equation.

You should have some of your own quotes in your sig.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

And where is pad area in the equations above?
I'm looking right in my physics text book (you know, those big books used by eggheads in universities) and it says that the coefficient of friction (whether static or kinetic) is dimensionless, there is zero mention of area at all.
No mention of area here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frictio...nt_of_friction.
Or here http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...tion#ref135521.
The coefficient of friction is not related to the area or weight of an object. If that was the case, the coefficient of friction for ice (on a glass surface lets say) would change depending on the size of the ice. It doesn't.

4g64fiero

iTrader: (1)

http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=920

This backs up what I was saying earlier, I will reference my previous statement as well.