My CBRD Experience - Record Pass - Updated 9/9/11
Mar 12, 2011, 04:00 AM
#33
So, just a brief update:
I apologize for the lack of posting here but there has been a lot going on personally, not to mention my tuner just abandoned ship from his old job to start up his own shop!
This is actually very good news, but this meant delaying my dyno appointment until he gets everything set-up and ready to go. I realize I could potentially, at least, put in the FMIC for now and just do the intake swap when we're ready to retune; but if we're going to be using a different dyno, I'd like to get a new baseline reading first so we can see exactly what the CBRD equipment is capable of. Then it's off to the track, with those being the only changes from last year and we'll see what happens with that as well!
So fear-not good peoples, I have not forgotten, nor will I leave you without factual data and evidence that you so greatly desire, it is just taking a bit longer than I would have liked. In the mean-time, at least it gives me some time to work on cleaning up the rest of the 09+ Ralliart section of the forums while I'm on here instead.
I apologize for the lack of posting here but there has been a lot going on personally, not to mention my tuner just abandoned ship from his old job to start up his own shop!
This is actually very good news, but this meant delaying my dyno appointment until he gets everything set-up and ready to go. I realize I could potentially, at least, put in the FMIC for now and just do the intake swap when we're ready to retune; but if we're going to be using a different dyno, I'd like to get a new baseline reading first so we can see exactly what the CBRD equipment is capable of. Then it's off to the track, with those being the only changes from last year and we'll see what happens with that as well!
So fear-not good peoples, I have not forgotten, nor will I leave you without factual data and evidence that you so greatly desire, it is just taking a bit longer than I would have liked. In the mean-time, at least it gives me some time to work on cleaning up the rest of the 09+ Ralliart section of the forums while I'm on here instead.
Mar 14, 2011, 01:24 PM
#35
Yes, i did, thank you. I'm sorry, I thought I had let you know already.
I'm getting really impatient having to look at this beautiful piece on a daily basis and not being able to get it on yet. At least the delay has given me the time to realize that I should really be upgrading my entire system to t-bolt clamps, so that will be done at the same time as the install. Very soon...
I've tried contacting Perrin a couple of times, too, and no response from them about the inlet tube whatsoever. I'll keep bugging them. Maybe a couple dozen phone calls will do the trick since it seemed to work with you and Darryl
I'm getting really impatient having to look at this beautiful piece on a daily basis and not being able to get it on yet. At least the delay has given me the time to realize that I should really be upgrading my entire system to t-bolt clamps, so that will be done at the same time as the install. Very soon...
I've tried contacting Perrin a couple of times, too, and no response from them about the inlet tube whatsoever. I'll keep bugging them. Maybe a couple dozen phone calls will do the trick since it seemed to work with you and Darryl
Mar 14, 2011, 04:47 PM
#36
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Not to thread jack but is there anywhere that lists all the sizes for the different clamp points? I know they have some play in them but I want to make sure I get at least close when buying them.
Mar 16, 2011, 03:53 AM
#38
Edit: Ok, I lied. The throttle-body connection point is also a bit larger. 2.75" t-bolt is ideal for that coupler
Last edited by 03chi-town0Z; Mar 27, 2011 at 08:44 AM.
Mar 27, 2011, 09:04 AM
#39
Ok, big news. The parts are finally on!
I am super excited to say that the car is all set and ready to go back to the track and see what it can do. The install was very simple and everything lined up just as it should and looks great. The intercooler is beastly but still fits well in the car without any rubbing or difficulty to fit and the intake is just a great design with a massive filter over the velocity stack going to a 3" MAF housing:
Everything just looks amazing and fits so well with the car. I have never been one to eliminate the factory grill mesh on any car and was actually trying my hardest to find something that would match it closely for my fog delete project, but with this intercooler in-place, I'm almost considering removing the mesh just because this thing looks so awesome.
The hardest part of the whole process was getting the filter to stay on the velocity stack. I just had to scuff up the mounting area on the stack itself because it was so smooth, then clean up any residual oils, etc. from the mounting area on the filter with a rag and some brake clean, and then hand-tighten it all in place. More pics (full engine bay, further out from the car, etc.) coming later.
I am super excited to say that the car is all set and ready to go back to the track and see what it can do. The install was very simple and everything lined up just as it should and looks great. The intercooler is beastly but still fits well in the car without any rubbing or difficulty to fit and the intake is just a great design with a massive filter over the velocity stack going to a 3" MAF housing:
Everything just looks amazing and fits so well with the car. I have never been one to eliminate the factory grill mesh on any car and was actually trying my hardest to find something that would match it closely for my fog delete project, but with this intercooler in-place, I'm almost considering removing the mesh just because this thing looks so awesome.
The hardest part of the whole process was getting the filter to stay on the velocity stack. I just had to scuff up the mounting area on the stack itself because it was so smooth, then clean up any residual oils, etc. from the mounting area on the filter with a rag and some brake clean, and then hand-tighten it all in place. More pics (full engine bay, further out from the car, etc.) coming later.
Mar 27, 2011, 09:53 AM
#40
Now, what everyone really wants to hear: How does it perform?
Well, the sad thing is this: over the winter, I haven't really gotten on the car all that much because of obvious reasons, so when I went into Devin's shop to get this all done, I had no idea that I apparently had a massive boost leak or something that was causing the car to run extremely rich and just plain wrong. If there was anything good that came from that, it's the confirmation that I made the right decision to spend the extra money and convert the whole system over to t-bolt clamps.
Basically, when we took the car out for a baseline run and after 2 quick pulls we realized that we were wasting out time. The car was showing 9.5:1 afr's on my wideband and the graphs just looked horrible.
I feel that I should clarify here for a moment: With the lack of availability of a dyno for the day, everything was done via street tune and "Virtual Dyno" for the time being, though it has been proven that this program is actually very accurate in its assessments. I assure you that the car will be on a dyno as soon as I get the chance, though the real results will obviously come when the car goes back to the track in a couple weeks.
So, back to the shop we went. Devin had a few other things going on when we got there, so we threw my car on the rack and I had at it. Yanking the old stuff off and throwing the new stuff on while he finished up what he needed to take care of for the day.
*Disclaimer: I have known Devin for awhile now and he knows me and my knowledge of cars being a Mitsu tech, so don't expect him to let just anyone have free-reign in his shop.*
Anyway, he finished up what he was doing and we got the rest of the parts installed, converted all the worm clamps over to t-bolt, and boost-leak tested the car. It passed with flying colors, so we threw the rest of the car back together, installed a boost-gauge, connected the wideband to the computer to log our afr's and got ready to go.
Devin had to rescale the MAF settings to accommodate the 3" housing which was a quick process, then he turned DOWN the boost a little just in case (which turned out to be a good thing) left the fuel and timing maps as they were for the time being and off we went. Well, after a few pulls with plenty of fuel/timing/boost/etc. adjustment in-between runs, the car felt simply amazing.
I hate to compare it to before because I haven't really driven it super hard since last fall at the end of the race season here, and I came into the shop with obvious issues. So it wouldn't be a fair comparison, but I have to admit that it definitely put a huge smile on my face.
Now, I don't want to say that these numbers are concrete, nor do I want to start an argument about what is and isn't possible, but iirc, one of the biggest issues around here has been the question of whether or not the stock turbo can make 300hp. According to VD, on a Dynojet anyway, it definitely can:
Most people on here like to use Mustang numbers, though, since they claim the Dynojet shows inflated "internet" numbers, so here's the Mustang conversion in VD:
I could always lower the smoothing on this graph too, and it would read about 280ish hp, but the graph gets a bit choppy. Devin and I are thoroughly convinced that once I get my last round of parts on and tune on e85, I will, in fact be seeing 300hp, stock turbo, on the mustang as well, so definitely stay tuned for that one!
The peak numbers are not much greater than before the mods, but for a larger intercooler and maf housing, they are very promising. For just an intercooler upgrade (not even from stock, but from an already upgraded EvoX) and a larger MAF housing with velocity stack, I am very impressed with the improvements and I am sure there will be greater gains to be seen when upgrading from stock components. Plus, also keep in mind that the intercooler (or any intercooler upgrade for that matter) isn't even really adding any power, more of a preventative mod allowing you to run more aggressively and make the power more reliably and safely.
The other thing to consider, which may not show well on the before/after comparison since there was such a problem with the car in the beginning, is the fact that the whole graph has shifted left again approximately 300-500rpm and the power does not drop off as severely. I will try to upload a scan of my last dyno run now that I've found it so you can see what I'm talking about. Peak numbers are not always the entire story, nor the best comparison to use, when it comes to improvements on a car.
Basically, with this velocity stack and huge filter, this thing is just gulping air right from the start, which is causing the faster spool and allowing it to hold longer. I don't want to start comparing apples to oranges, but it is reminiscent of the AMS intake that just increases intake volume so dramatically.
So here is the before-after comparison, even though it's not really accurate because of the prior issues, it still shows what gains were made, at least for the day. Keep in mind that the smoothing was up on this one because the initial graph was so choppy, so the peak numbers are actually a bit lower:
So there you have it. I will be adding more as I can think of it and I'll try to get more pictures and my original dyno scans added, as well as a trip to the track and the dyno for updates as well.
As of right now, the car feels amazing and I couldn't be happier.
Well, the sad thing is this: over the winter, I haven't really gotten on the car all that much because of obvious reasons, so when I went into Devin's shop to get this all done, I had no idea that I apparently had a massive boost leak or something that was causing the car to run extremely rich and just plain wrong. If there was anything good that came from that, it's the confirmation that I made the right decision to spend the extra money and convert the whole system over to t-bolt clamps.
Basically, when we took the car out for a baseline run and after 2 quick pulls we realized that we were wasting out time. The car was showing 9.5:1 afr's on my wideband and the graphs just looked horrible.
I feel that I should clarify here for a moment: With the lack of availability of a dyno for the day, everything was done via street tune and "Virtual Dyno" for the time being, though it has been proven that this program is actually very accurate in its assessments. I assure you that the car will be on a dyno as soon as I get the chance, though the real results will obviously come when the car goes back to the track in a couple weeks.
So, back to the shop we went. Devin had a few other things going on when we got there, so we threw my car on the rack and I had at it. Yanking the old stuff off and throwing the new stuff on while he finished up what he needed to take care of for the day.
*Disclaimer: I have known Devin for awhile now and he knows me and my knowledge of cars being a Mitsu tech, so don't expect him to let just anyone have free-reign in his shop.
* Anyway, he finished up what he was doing and we got the rest of the parts installed, converted all the worm clamps over to t-bolt, and boost-leak tested the car. It passed with flying colors, so we threw the rest of the car back together, installed a boost-gauge, connected the wideband to the computer to log our afr's and got ready to go.
Devin had to rescale the MAF settings to accommodate the 3" housing which was a quick process, then he turned DOWN the boost a little just in case (which turned out to be a good thing) left the fuel and timing maps as they were for the time being and off we went. Well, after a few pulls with plenty of fuel/timing/boost/etc. adjustment in-between runs, the car felt simply amazing.
I hate to compare it to before because I haven't really driven it super hard since last fall at the end of the race season here, and I came into the shop with obvious issues. So it wouldn't be a fair comparison, but I have to admit that it definitely put a huge smile on my face.
Now, I don't want to say that these numbers are concrete, nor do I want to start an argument about what is and isn't possible, but iirc, one of the biggest issues around here has been the question of whether or not the stock turbo can make 300hp. According to VD, on a Dynojet anyway, it definitely can:
Most people on here like to use Mustang numbers, though, since they claim the Dynojet shows inflated "internet" numbers, so here's the Mustang conversion in VD:
I could always lower the smoothing on this graph too, and it would read about 280ish hp, but the graph gets a bit choppy. Devin and I are thoroughly convinced that once I get my last round of parts on and tune on e85, I will, in fact be seeing 300hp, stock turbo, on the mustang as well, so definitely stay tuned for that one!
The peak numbers are not much greater than before the mods, but for a larger intercooler and maf housing, they are very promising. For just an intercooler upgrade (not even from stock, but from an already upgraded EvoX) and a larger MAF housing with velocity stack, I am very impressed with the improvements and I am sure there will be greater gains to be seen when upgrading from stock components. Plus, also keep in mind that the intercooler (or any intercooler upgrade for that matter) isn't even really adding any power, more of a preventative mod allowing you to run more aggressively and make the power more reliably and safely.
The other thing to consider, which may not show well on the before/after comparison since there was such a problem with the car in the beginning, is the fact that the whole graph has shifted left again approximately 300-500rpm and the power does not drop off as severely. I will try to upload a scan of my last dyno run now that I've found it so you can see what I'm talking about. Peak numbers are not always the entire story, nor the best comparison to use, when it comes to improvements on a car.
Basically, with this velocity stack and huge filter, this thing is just gulping air right from the start, which is causing the faster spool and allowing it to hold longer. I don't want to start comparing apples to oranges, but it is reminiscent of the AMS intake that just increases intake volume so dramatically.
So here is the before-after comparison, even though it's not really accurate because of the prior issues, it still shows what gains were made, at least for the day. Keep in mind that the smoothing was up on this one because the initial graph was so choppy, so the peak numbers are actually a bit lower:
So there you have it. I will be adding more as I can think of it and I'll try to get more pictures and my original dyno scans added, as well as a trip to the track and the dyno for updates as well.
As of right now, the car feels amazing and I couldn't be happier.
Last edited by 03chi-town0Z; Mar 31, 2011 at 05:39 PM.
Mar 28, 2011, 04:52 AM
#42
Thanks! Does this make me the first to 300 on a stock turbo RA?
BTW, I realize I forgot to mention:
Boost pressure has been lowered, as mentioned before, but is still making more power. Previously I was at 27psi tapering down to 19-20. I am now peaking around 24 and tapering to 20-21. As you can see, the hp curve still drops off because of the small turbo, but nowhere near as severely as commonly seen.
Without anything else to base this on, I have to attribute this to the fact that it is just able to suck so much more air through this velocity stack. Again, I'm just very pleased with the whole thing and to see such progress with only 2 parts amazes me. Thanks again to Chad and CBRD
BTW, I realize I forgot to mention:
Boost pressure has been lowered, as mentioned before, but is still making more power. Previously I was at 27psi tapering down to 19-20. I am now peaking around 24 and tapering to 20-21. As you can see, the hp curve still drops off because of the small turbo, but nowhere near as severely as commonly seen.
Without anything else to base this on, I have to attribute this to the fact that it is just able to suck so much more air through this velocity stack. Again, I'm just very pleased with the whole thing and to see such progress with only 2 parts amazes me. Thanks again to Chad and CBRD
Mar 28, 2011, 07:54 AM
#43
Looks great! You must have had a pretty nasty boost leak to throw AFRs off that much. I'm still using worm clamps and I'm pretty sure I've got some bad leaks as well. Do you recall what sizes were required? I think they were all the same size except for one clamp...
Mar 28, 2011, 09:10 AM
#44
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Good to hear the results were so nice, and most importantly that you are very happy with the results.
Very impressive results indeed for a stock turbo.
That air filter is obviously huge, but does the MAF housing by chance have any resemblance to the UR MAF housing?
Very impressive results indeed for a stock turbo.
That air filter is obviously huge, but does the MAF housing by chance have any resemblance to the UR MAF housing?