Good Review From Top Gear
May 13, 2012, 01:15 PM
#16
Picking between a WRX and a Ralliart boils down to personal preference. Some people like the look of the Ralliart, others don't. Some like the TC-SST, others don't. Some like the boxer rumble, others hate it. Objectively deciding between them is useless and defeats the point.
May 13, 2012, 01:27 PM
#18
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This makes zero sense and is, again, unsupported. The WRX weighs substantially less than the Ralliart. A WRX with 300 WHP with have a substantial power to weight advantage over the Ralliart. Logically, this means it will out-accelerate the Ralliart. On track, who knows. That weight also hurts cornering and mid-corner acceleration.
That is exactly why all the reviewer are so surprised by this car; how can a 3500lb car be so nimble, its the chassis
You had an older Subaru, we are not comparing an older Subaru to a new Ralliart anymore than we are comparing an older Ralliart to a new Subaru. Would it be accurate for someone to talk about their experience in the 04 Ralliart as proof of their expertise on the new Ralliart? The new WRX is substantially faster than the older models.
I had an 08, is there a new chassis that I don't know about?
Yes they did stiffen it up (supposedly 30% for the STi) by changing out bushings, but it still can't keep up
You can have just as much control over the WRX ECU as the Ralliart ECU. Opensource is available and widely used on Subarus.
Yes I know Subie is also Open Source, that is why it's one of the only car's I would currently consider owning (on a side note if/when Hyundai's Siemens Ecu is ever figured out, I'd consider trying a Genesis/Veloster). But the Subie ecu does not have nearly the tuning abilities that the Mitsu does, which oddly makes the Subie's easier to tune.
You say you pull away from STIs yet we have no idea if they're modified, you haven't said anything about the circumstances and you're car is quite modified.
That is exactly why all the reviewer are so surprised by this car; how can a 3500lb car be so nimble, its the chassis
You had an older Subaru, we are not comparing an older Subaru to a new Ralliart anymore than we are comparing an older Ralliart to a new Subaru. Would it be accurate for someone to talk about their experience in the 04 Ralliart as proof of their expertise on the new Ralliart? The new WRX is substantially faster than the older models.
I had an 08, is there a new chassis that I don't know about?
Yes they did stiffen it up (supposedly 30% for the STi) by changing out bushings, but it still can't keep up
You can have just as much control over the WRX ECU as the Ralliart ECU. Opensource is available and widely used on Subarus.
Yes I know Subie is also Open Source, that is why it's one of the only car's I would currently consider owning (on a side note if/when Hyundai's Siemens Ecu is ever figured out, I'd consider trying a Genesis/Veloster). But the Subie ecu does not have nearly the tuning abilities that the Mitsu does, which oddly makes the Subie's easier to tune.
You say you pull away from STIs yet we have no idea if they're modified, you haven't said anything about the circumstances and you're car is quite modified.
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Last edited by sstevojr; May 13, 2012 at 01:30 PM.
May 13, 2012, 01:33 PM
#19
Reviewers do like the chassis, it is a very nice piece, but they also notice the weight. The Ralliart is nimble, but so is the WRX. In terms of skid pad numbers, they're very close. Neither has a clear advantage.
The 09+ WRX is a huge departure from the 08. Subaru admitted the 08 was too soft and thus the 09 was born. It has more power, better suspension, better tires and is an all-around better car.
Subarus are easy to tune now and just as easy as Mitsubishis if you know what you're doing.
A nicely done Subaru can make pretty good power for a street car. 300+ WHP isn't unheard of with just bolt-ons and tuning (eg. stock turbo). Torque is the Subaru's big draw, the 2.5 L engine means good low-end torque.
The 09+ WRX is a huge departure from the 08. Subaru admitted the 08 was too soft and thus the 09 was born. It has more power, better suspension, better tires and is an all-around better car.
Subarus are easy to tune now and just as easy as Mitsubishis if you know what you're doing.
A nicely done Subaru can make pretty good power for a street car. 300+ WHP isn't unheard of with just bolt-ons and tuning (eg. stock turbo). Torque is the Subaru's big draw, the 2.5 L engine means good low-end torque.
May 13, 2012, 01:37 PM
#20
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Stock for stock, the RA is quicker but the WRX has a better top end. The RA is more nimble, able to dance around like a 300lbs ballerina; the WRX is softer and it's limits are quite apparent, but it's AWD system will save it from real problem situations. The Subie AWD system is a bit heavier and clunkier with a 22% drivetrain loss, versus Mitsu's at 17% drivetrain loss. The brakes on the WRX are better than the RA, as are the rear view mirror, and exhaust rumble (to the ear, despite being due to an inefficient UEL headers).
From a mechanical POV the subie suspension is easier to work on (it seriously like lego's for grown ups), but it's engine is much harder to work on (that whole boxer thing).
From a mechanical POV the subie suspension is easier to work on (it seriously like lego's for grown ups), but it's engine is much harder to work on (that whole boxer thing).
Last edited by sstevojr; May 13, 2012 at 01:42 PM.
May 13, 2012, 01:46 PM
#21
Stock for stock, the RA is quicker but the WRX has a better top end. The RA is more nimble, able to dance around like a 300lbs ballerina; the WRX is softer and it's limits are quite apparent, but it's AWD system will save it from real problem situations. The Subie AWD system is a bit heavier and clunkier with a 22% drivetrain loss, versus Mitsu's at 17% drivetrain loss. The brakes on the WRX are better than the RA, as are the rear view mirror, and exhaust rumble (to the ear, despite being due to an inefficient UEL headers).
From a mechanical POV the subie suspension is easier to work on (it seriously like lego's for grown ups), but it's engine is much harder to work on (that whole boxer thing).
From a mechanical POV the subie suspension is easier to work on (it seriously like lego's for grown ups), but it's engine is much harder to work on (that whole boxer thing).
Where are you getting these drivetrain loss numbers? Pulling them out of a hat?
May 13, 2012, 02:05 PM
#22
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I never changed my stance, Stock the WRX does have a performance advantage with better braking and more mid-top end power.
The drivetrain loss is due to all the components in the system (differential, gears, driveshaft, suspension, etc) I was being nice saying 22%, most put it at 24-25%. In fact SST is more like 18% (still being determined, as tunability starts to remove if from the OEM 19.5% by changing ramping rates/etc), where as Manual (non-RA of course) is more like 17. Where as RWD is more like 9-11% due to fewer components (typically 1 diff, versus 3) and hypoid-type gears.
It's a whole lot of technical not really pertinent to this thread (% for tranny type (torque converters are murderous) transfer case, differential, other odds and ends), but perhaps another can be made, or an in depth search of other forums/techincal boards.
The drivetrain loss is due to all the components in the system (differential, gears, driveshaft, suspension, etc) I was being nice saying 22%, most put it at 24-25%. In fact SST is more like 18% (still being determined, as tunability starts to remove if from the OEM 19.5% by changing ramping rates/etc), where as Manual (non-RA of course) is more like 17. Where as RWD is more like 9-11% due to fewer components (typically 1 diff, versus 3) and hypoid-type gears.
It's a whole lot of technical not really pertinent to this thread (% for tranny type (torque converters are murderous) transfer case, differential, other odds and ends), but perhaps another can be made, or an in depth search of other forums/techincal boards.
Last edited by sstevojr; May 13, 2012 at 02:07 PM.
May 13, 2012, 02:11 PM
#23
I never changed my stance, Stock the WRX does have a performance advantage with better braking and more mid-top end power.
The drivetrain loss is due to all the components in the system (differential, gears, driveshaft, suspension, etc) I was being nice saying 22%, most put it at 24-25%. In fact SST is more like 18% (still being determined, as tunability starts to remove if from the OEM 19.5% by changing ramping rates/etc), where as Manual (non-RA of course) is more like 17. Where as RWD is more like 9-11% due to fewer components (typically 1 diff, versus 3) and hypoid-type gears.
It's a whole lot of technical not really pertinent to this thread (% for tranny type (torque converters are murderous) transfer case, differential, other odds and ends), but perhaps another can be made, or an in depth search of other forums/techincal boards.
The drivetrain loss is due to all the components in the system (differential, gears, driveshaft, suspension, etc) I was being nice saying 22%, most put it at 24-25%. In fact SST is more like 18% (still being determined, as tunability starts to remove if from the OEM 19.5% by changing ramping rates/etc), where as Manual (non-RA of course) is more like 17. Where as RWD is more like 9-11% due to fewer components (typically 1 diff, versus 3) and hypoid-type gears.
It's a whole lot of technical not really pertinent to this thread (% for tranny type (torque converters are murderous) transfer case, differential, other odds and ends), but perhaps another can be made, or an in depth search of other forums/techincal boards.
Again, where are these numbers coming from? You're spouting drivetrain loss numbers but you haven't provided any information to back them up.
May 13, 2012, 02:21 PM
#24
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Are you serious? I can't tell if you are just trying to be difficult, or if you are truly ignorant of drive train loss?
Here is a good start, but there is plenty of info for you to dig upon:
http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-10...s/viewall.html
Here is a good start, but there is plenty of info for you to dig upon:
http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-10...s/viewall.html
May 13, 2012, 02:22 PM
#25
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Next here is a good info:
http://www.ehow.com/how_7720386_calc...eel-drive.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_7720386_calc...eel-drive.html
May 13, 2012, 05:48 PM
#28
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOUcw45gd_w
Here's another review... RA only get's one out of three recommendations and they had nice things to say despite giving the victory to the WRX.
Trust me, the majority of reviews aren't so nice to the RA.
Hell, I've seen some reviews where the 09 and up WRX kills the STI in a straight line so that car is no joke. Coming second to the WRX stock for stock does not keep me awake at night.
Amby even said the choice between the two comes down to personal preference since arguably both are in the same ballpark of performance numbers (giving a little leeway to the stock RA here) so it's going to be little things that move you towards one or the other.
When I researched the RA before pulling the trigger back in 2009, they had the RA dead last every time in reviews when pitted against the considered competition in it's category. Also, it doesn't help that from the jump, almost all the major car reviewers have this car with horrible quarter mile times and some giving the 0-60 time besting only under 7 seconds. The RA is written off by almost every reviewer to the point where even Civic Si drivers think they can kill an RA stock.
Trust me, the world need not know how easy it is to fix the short-comings of this car stock (no one needs to walk out of the dealership with the a new RA and the dealer say, "Pssst, GST Basemap and boost pill for $$$")... let them keep under-rating. The last thing I want is every d-bag running out to buy this car.
Here's another review... RA only get's one out of three recommendations and they had nice things to say despite giving the victory to the WRX.
Trust me, the majority of reviews aren't so nice to the RA.
Hell, I've seen some reviews where the 09 and up WRX kills the STI in a straight line so that car is no joke. Coming second to the WRX stock for stock does not keep me awake at night.
Amby even said the choice between the two comes down to personal preference since arguably both are in the same ballpark of performance numbers (giving a little leeway to the stock RA here) so it's going to be little things that move you towards one or the other.
When I researched the RA before pulling the trigger back in 2009, they had the RA dead last every time in reviews when pitted against the considered competition in it's category. Also, it doesn't help that from the jump, almost all the major car reviewers have this car with horrible quarter mile times and some giving the 0-60 time besting only under 7 seconds. The RA is written off by almost every reviewer to the point where even Civic Si drivers think they can kill an RA stock.
Trust me, the world need not know how easy it is to fix the short-comings of this car stock (no one needs to walk out of the dealership with the a new RA and the dealer say, "Pssst, GST Basemap and boost pill for $$$")... let them keep under-rating. The last thing I want is every d-bag running out to buy this car.
May 13, 2012, 05:57 PM
#29
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Trust me, the world need not know how easy it is to fix the short-comings of this car stock (no one needs to walk out of the dealership with the a new RA and the dealer say, "Pssst, GST Basemap and boost pill for $$$")... let them keep under-rating. The last thing I want is every d-bag running out to buy this car.
Let's keep the potential of the Ralliart "our little secret"....
Last edited by Slee256; May 13, 2012 at 06:03 PM.
