russ72

iTrader: (1)

Hello,
For us new to driving AWD and having Traction Control are there some driving tips that can be of use.
I've driven FWD most of my life so I have a pretty good grasp of how it drives, but never an AWD car.
When is it needed to Turn Off/On Traction Control?
How does a AWD handle compared to a FWD?
The 3 modes Tarmac/Snow/Gravel. I know Snow is more FWD bias in power, and Gravel is more of an even power distribution, does any use or prefer to use Gravel mode in snow or does it have any drawbacks?

Raikiri

iTrader: (21)

The car is always 50/50. The different modes have no affect on power distribution. It only controls when the differential locks up based on wheel slip.

I wouldn't recommend taking traction control off at all unless you're stuck on the side of the road and trying to power your way out.

cizic

if roads have layer of snow then use snow mode, keep traction control on unless your having some fun in an empty parking lot

Senvae

Even in snow mode, there is still some kick coming from the back wheels, so you'll fishtail a tiny bit. But not as much as a full RWD, so don't worry about it. If you're nervous at first, use the ASC on, and SST on Drive/Normal. Keep both hands on the wheel and remember to steer where you want to go, don't panic and correct too much, the AWC will stabilize the car in a few short seconds.

I've been driving on performance All Season tires for 2-3 years now, and I live in Edmonton AB, Canada. One of the most northern cities in the world. So trust me, I'm a pro.... no seriously I'm a professional driver. I drive city buses 40 hours a week.

It's good for all Ralliart AND Evo drivers to remember that, even though the AWC is spectacular, you do have to adjust your driving to conditions. Keep a good distance from the car in front, and if the snow on the ground is thick and fresh, expect to slide a lot. Light throttle during icy or snowy days, especially around intersections. The constant stop and start at those intersections create more ice, thus you're more likely to slip just before a red light, where cars have been polishing snow into sheer ice all day long.

You could also find an empty parking lot on a snowy late night and test out how the car handles.

russ72

iTrader: (1)

Ya, was supposed to snow the other day and never really did so I couldn't find a spot to play. Also, I've gotta decide quick on what to do about tires. I still have summer tires on. I'm either leaning just putting good all-seasons on and keep my oem rims on(store summer tires or sell them) or just put some dedicated snow tires on oem rims and buy some new rims and put summer tires on that). Or lastly getting the rims I like putting some good All-Seasons on year around and using my OEM/Summer as backup. Any who, thanks for the driving tips.

cizic

i use the all season yokohama's on stock rims for the winters and never had an issue

PlutoniumX

I would really go with 4 winter tires but that depends on how cold and such it gets in your parts. With AWD you will find that it is alot better than FWD but with any car you need to get use to it and figure out how it handles in different conditions. For me i always have traction control off and in gravel mode. The reason why I do that is that after driving this thing since 2009 i'd rather be able to power out and go where i need to go if say it started to slide. Like i said though just take it easy and get to know how it handles and what you feel comfortable with.

xi

I've heard that tarmac frees up the front/rear almost immediately and snow keeps the front/rear locked the longest (kinda like a 4x4).

I'm gonna post an opinion that may not be too popular with many people.

What most people fail to realize is that AWD/AWC/AYC/Traction Control/ETC is about getting the power down. Which is not where most people run into trouble. When it comes down to it, once you get up to speed, whether you're cruising, braking, or turning, the car is just like any other car on the road. The most traction that your tires can provide is 100%. Whether you choose to apportion that to braking, turning, yawing, accelerating, producing copious amounts of smoke, or any combination of the above, is up to you. But the tires can not give more than 100% (under "normal" circumstances).

I drive from NYC to upstate NY literally every weekend and during the winter, often to vermont to go snowboarding. If there's a storm, I'm the first one out on the road at 4am and the last one home at 2am. 5 hours up, 7 hours back, for 8 hours of fresh pow.

What I've discovered in the past few years is that it makes relatively little difference what mode I'm in unless I'm driving like ken block. With 2ft of snow on the ground and my X-Ice's, if I floor it, it'll go. And often it'll get up to illegal speeds pretty quickly. On 55mph highways with stoplights, I've floored it, held it slightly sideways and gone up to 70+ mph spraying a rooster tail of snow pretty much as far as my eye can see. Smart? NO. Definitely not. Fun? Yes. HOWEVER. I eventually had to slow down to either stop or turn. What matters there isn't how fancy all the gadgets on my car are. What matters are the 4 palm sized contact patches I have as my ONLY connection to the ground/snow.

My tips to y'all would be, get some winter tires if you can afford it. Get some continental DWS's (look at tire rack's snow test) if you don't want winter tires. Leave plenty of stopping distance. Never out drive your viewing distance. Coast into a corner and leave plenty of margin, you can always add more power coming out but you can't apply additional braking going in if you've exceeded your limit. I also find that keeping it in manual mode helps because I can get better consistency in when the power kicks in with the turbo lag and I can modulate engine braking better.

And watch out for every one else. It doesn't matter how good you are when some idiot t-bones or rear ends you.

Or when someone leaves a van abandoned on the highway when you're plowing through at 50mph in a snowstorm.

xi

I've "powered" out of small slides too but I don't really understand how the physics works.

I understand that I'm sliding because I've exceeded grip. How I can then "gain" additional grip is beyond me. I can only assume that the sipes bite better along the direction or rotation rather than perpendicular to it so I'm digging through to solid ground by spinning the tires, which allows me more traction?

Senvae

It just seems like the more power you put down, the faster the car claws at that little traction it can grasp. A lot of auto journalist found that out testing EVOs. Sometimes they would seem like the car can't quite handle a corner, but they had better results when trying it again with more power.

Sometimes I get stuck on icy patches with my city bus, and I have to dial down and baby power through so I don't overheat the tires and create more ice. But I never got stuck at intersection with my Ralliart, so I can't compare it.

Either way, if you don't live in the great cold North, you might not need winter tires. With temperatures around -0 Celcius (sorry I don't know what it is in F), All Season tires' rubber tends to have the same consistency as winter or summer tires. It's only when the temp drops well below the freezing cap that All Season and Summer tires become too rigid to grip the road properly. So if your winters are kind of mild, you could save money by getting decent All Season tires and running them year round by simply being careful in the winter. My current tires are the Nitto Motivo and they have pretty good reviews in terms of performance in the summer. Nothing was said about snow performance but they are adequate by my experience. I just give myself a big braking distance. You should be doing that anyways to save on gas, by approaching red lights slowly instead of rushing to them and stop. A lot of times you can avoid having to stop at all, which is great on gas, and great for passenger comfort inside my bus. All bus drivers are required to take "Fuel Sense" courses which teaches how to drive smoother and more fuel efficiently. It's also mixed up with a defensive driving course that gives me 2 additional merit points on my driver's permit, and helps me save on car insurance rates. But overall, having a less aggressive approach to red lights also gives me better braking traction in winter (obviously) which led to my 5 years safe driving award. I know it is really hard to drive passively with the Ralliart, but you have to look at the big picture. I wait until I am alone on the roads before powering through the snow... but it is fun as hell.

Holy ****, do I ever ramble...

xi

Not sure about your tires but there is a huge difference in stiffness between my continental DWS's and my Michelin X-ice's even when its only 30 outside.

When the tires were new there wasn't much difference but after about a year there was.

Its most apparent when changing back to the all seasons. When I take the all season tires out of my warm bedroom and take them outside, compared to the winter tires that have been sitting in the cold, the winter tires are still much softer, even on the more solid non-siped sections.

Senvae

Wasn't I saying that there is a difference in stiffness? I was merely saying that All Season tires could be adequate for people who have mild winters. It's hard for me in Northern Alberta to judge whether or not someone needs actual winter tires in the States. And there are some people who choose to wear all season tires in Canada, and they swear they are just fine. But they aren't... and the province of Quebec actually passed a law that makes it illegal to have anything but winter tires between November and March, in order to try and reduce the accident rates caused by poor tire traction.

BTW, Xi, I was wondering if you would recommend those Michelin X-Ice3 tires. I am on the verge of buying new winter tires, and my choices are Bridgestone Blizzaks LM-32 or X-Ice3. But I had seen a few negative user-reviews about the Michelins. What's your impression of them?

xi

I think my point was that it doesn't take temperatures to dip well below freezing in order to see a difference in stiffness in the rubber. Even at freezing or a bit above that, there's an appreciable difference.

Where have you seen negative reviews about the michelins?

I have the X-Ice Xi2's. They have, as far as I can remember, about 12000 miles on them. About 3000 or so miles of them have been on snow (so there's no wear there) but the other 9000 miles have been pretty much on dry pavement, with maybe a few thousand miles driving at above freezing temperatures at ~40-50 degrees. It's a mix of ~80% highway 20% backcountry/city roads. I usually push the car pretty hard in that 20% of driving.

Despite that, with 12000 miles on it, I estimate that of the 10/32" of tread that the tires started with, there's maybe 9/32-8/32 left. Some areas still have the texture from the molding still on it! To say that they're impressive would be an understatement.

To be honest, for city driving, the LM-32's are perfect. I see them as the best compromise. It would be full studless tires like the Xi3->LM-32's->Continental DWS's->Standard All-Seasons.