EVO X Brakes on 09 Ralliart
Nov 5, 2009, 02:06 PM
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EVO X Brakes on 09 Ralliart
Hi All,
I've tried to use the search function to answer my questions to no avail so I'm turning to you all.
I know multiple people say the EVO X Brembo's don't fit the Ralliart. What I want to know is WHY they don't fit from people who have actually tried it.
I don't want useless posts that say they won't fit, why do you want bigger brakes etc etc!!!!!!!! I want bigger brakes for my RA and I'm investigating my options. Those of you who think bigger brakes are a waste of time please keep your opinions to yourself.
So please let the feedback begin.
I've tried to use the search function to answer my questions to no avail so I'm turning to you all.
I know multiple people say the EVO X Brembo's don't fit the Ralliart. What I want to know is WHY they don't fit from people who have actually tried it.
I don't want useless posts that say they won't fit, why do you want bigger brakes etc etc!!!!!!!! I want bigger brakes for my RA and I'm investigating my options. Those of you who think bigger brakes are a waste of time please keep your opinions to yourself.
So please let the feedback begin.
Nov 5, 2009, 02:26 PM
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Why they don't fit: Different hubs, different knuckles, different axles, etc.
Why they aren't worth it: There are better options available than the EVO X Brembos.
What other options are there: Robispec, brakeman and AMS all have big brake kits.
Why are those big brake kits a better option than EVO X Brembos: They are new, designed to fit the RA, come with everything necessary to install, probably cheaper once you account for all the customization, more easily attained since you don't have to wait for someone to sell their used EVO X brakes, and much LIGHTER than stock EVO X Brembos.
Why they aren't worth it: There are better options available than the EVO X Brembos.
What other options are there: Robispec, brakeman and AMS all have big brake kits.
Why are those big brake kits a better option than EVO X Brembos: They are new, designed to fit the RA, come with everything necessary to install, probably cheaper once you account for all the customization, more easily attained since you don't have to wait for someone to sell their used EVO X brakes, and much LIGHTER than stock EVO X Brembos.
Nov 5, 2009, 02:46 PM
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I knew the hubs and knuckles were different on the older Evo's but how are they different on the X? From my understanding the drivelines of both cars are nearly identical.
In Aus there are only 2 brake kits available (1 available and 1 soon to be). To freight one of the kits from the USA would blow out the costs (exchange rate, freight, import tax etc) hence the reason I'm looking at the X conversion. I know they're not the very best available but at least they were developed for a lancer.
In Aus there are only 2 brake kits available (1 available and 1 soon to be). To freight one of the kits from the USA would blow out the costs (exchange rate, freight, import tax etc) hence the reason I'm looking at the X conversion. I know they're not the very best available but at least they were developed for a lancer.
Nov 5, 2009, 03:01 PM
#4
I knew the hubs and knuckles were different on the older Evo's but how are they different on the X? From my understanding the drivelines of both cars are nearly identical.
In Aus there are only 2 brake kits available (1 available and 1 soon to be). To freight one of the kits from the USA would blow out the costs (exchange rate, freight, import tax etc) hence the reason I'm looking at the X conversion. I know they're not the very best available but at least they were developed for a lancer.
In Aus there are only 2 brake kits available (1 available and 1 soon to be). To freight one of the kits from the USA would blow out the costs (exchange rate, freight, import tax etc) hence the reason I'm looking at the X conversion. I know they're not the very best available but at least they were developed for a lancer.
Nov 5, 2009, 03:08 PM
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The Ralliat uses the older Evo 9 drivetrain, the Evo X is something completely new and different. This has been covered before, it can be done but the cost would be high. If you want better brakes, buy some nice pads, lines, fluid and most importantly tires, and call it a day. If you track the car heavily enough to actually need a BBK, you can buy an aftermarket one like that offered by AMS.
The reason I'm looking at a brake upgrade is that I'm aiming for over 300HP ATW and will be tracking the car occasionally as well as "spirited" driving on the street.
As mentioned in my previous post, brake upgrades offered in the USA cost far too much when all factors considered to make them a viable option.
Nov 5, 2009, 04:25 PM
#6
That being said, would a Evo 9 brake conversion be a better option (They're popping up occasionally over here)?
The reason I'm looking at a brake upgrade is that I'm aiming for over 300HP ATW and will be tracking the car occasionally as well as "spirited" driving on the street.
As mentioned in my previous post, brake upgrades offered in the USA cost far too much when all factors considered to make them a viable option.
The reason I'm looking at a brake upgrade is that I'm aiming for over 300HP ATW and will be tracking the car occasionally as well as "spirited" driving on the street.
As mentioned in my previous post, brake upgrades offered in the USA cost far too much when all factors considered to make them a viable option.
Nov 5, 2009, 04:27 PM
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hit up mrt - I've got one one their brake kits on order and getting it installed on the 16th. they are doing a bit of a start up special as well. tmr have the ap kit which should be ready?
after testing, a few hard stops on track shagged the stock set up even with upgraded pads and rotors...
after testing, a few hard stops on track shagged the stock set up even with upgraded pads and rotors...
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Nov 5, 2009, 04:43 PM
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hit up mrt - I've got one one their brake kits on order and getting it installed on the 16th. they are doing a bit of a start up special as well. tmr have the ap kit which should be ready?
after testing, a few hard stops on track shagged the stock set up even with upgraded pads and rotors...
after testing, a few hard stops on track shagged the stock set up even with upgraded pads and rotors...
Give us a report when you've installed them (I'm also on Evo OZ as you've probably noticed
)
Nov 5, 2009, 04:49 PM
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Something worth mentioning: Just pads and rotors alone aren't going to "do it" for a track set up. You'll also need better brake fluid (and ideally, stainless steel brake lines).
Nov 5, 2009, 05:17 PM
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I'm not sure what you mean by "shagged." You started to suffer from fade? The rotors warped? The calipers exploded?
Something worth mentioning: Just pads and rotors alone aren't going to "do it" for a track set up. You'll also need better brake fluid (and ideally, stainless steel brake lines).
Something worth mentioning: Just pads and rotors alone aren't going to "do it" for a track set up. You'll also need better brake fluid (and ideally, stainless steel brake lines).
Nov 5, 2009, 05:18 PM
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I agree that just a pad and rotor upgrade without lines and fluid won't cut it on the track but I'm sure Bill would have gone all out (just look at what else he's done to his RA).
Nov 5, 2009, 05:27 PM
#12
Amby, have you read my first post??????? This is the kind of crap I'm not interested in hearing. I'm already well aware of your views from previous posts. If you feel the RA brakes are the best thing since sliced bread then good on ya. I'm more interested in safety as a complete package. More power = more speed = better braking required.
I've looked at the MRT option. Pretty well priced but don't like the fact they're only a 2 pot front still + they don't give a brand, just say they're a local manufacturer.
Give us a report when you've installed them (I'm also on Evo OZ as you've probably noticed )
I've looked at the MRT option. Pretty well priced but don't like the fact they're only a 2 pot front still + they don't give a brand, just say they're a local manufacturer.
Give us a report when you've installed them (I'm also on Evo OZ as you've probably noticed
)
. I answered your question. You've made several false assumptions in your posts. I'll try to address them here.Braking is largely dictated by tires, stickier tires will stop faster than less sticky tires. Have you ever engaged ABS with your Ralliart during a very hard stop? If you answer yes to this (which you should), you're braking system is already maxed out in the sense that it can exert more force than your tires can handle. Upgrade your tires first.
When you break down the forces behind braking, the main contributors are the hydraulic pressure in the system (a relative constant) and the pad material. The size of the pads is irrelevant. I bolded this part because it's something many people ignore. Buying a set of 6-piston calipers with massive 15" inch rotors is unnecessary from a braking force standpoint. Pad size is more related to heat tolerance than braking force. Larger pads and rotors can better dissipate heat. This becomes important if you're abusing the brakes over and over and over again like in real motorsports competition. On the street, you're unlikely to heat your pads enough for this to be an issue (unless you regularly slow from 100 MPH to 20 MPH multiple times).
The brake fade many people attribute to the brakes is because of the fluid. Replace the stock fluid with something better (like Amsoil, Motul, whatever that blue stuff is) and that sensation will go away.
If you want better braking performance, your first step should be to replace the tires. This topic has been explored many times before and tires are the single largest contributor to braking performance. If you feel that isn't enough, upgrade the pads and the fluid. If you still feel that isn't enough, then look at the big brake kits. There's no point in running out and spending 2000$+ on brakes right out of the gate.
Nov 5, 2009, 05:27 PM
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Why get brake upgrades if You don't even have 300hp yet. I'd worry about getting the power first then get the brakes. Even then I wouldn't spend my money on brakes. Instead you should go for a nice suspension system (coilover kit, strut & sway bars) and some good track tires.
You will enjoy handling improvements for spirited driving more then a brake kit.
You will enjoy handling improvements for spirited driving more then a brake kit.
Nov 5, 2009, 05:33 PM
#14
Even if you get a high HP car, you don't need to upgrade the brakes so extremely. Unless you plan on massively changing your driving style just because you have more power, if your brakes are fine now, they'll be fine later. From my own experiences, someone who drives like an A-hole will do it with 100 HP or 500 HP, it just takes them longer to get there. I really see no reason to spend so much money on a "track" setup if you're not serious about track. The parts are cool and they certainly add that bling and hoes factor but it's a waste of money. You have to ask yourself how serious you are about it and whether you want to track your daily driven Ralliart. There's a reason why I'm buying a Miata and it isn't power.
Nov 5, 2009, 06:21 PM
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? This is probably the first time someone has accused me of liking the Ralliart too much . I answered your question. You've made several false assumptions in your posts. I'll try to address them here.
Braking is largely dictated by tires, stickier tires will stop faster than less sticky tires. Have you ever engaged ABS with your Ralliart during a very hard stop? If you answer yes to this (which you should), you're braking system is already maxed out in the sense that it can exert more force than your tires can handle. Upgrade your tires first.
When you break down the forces behind braking, the main contributors are the hydraulic pressure in the system (a relative constant) and the pad material. The size of the pads is irrelevant. I bolded this part because it's something many people ignore. Buying a set of 6-piston calipers with massive 15" inch rotors is unnecessary from a braking force standpoint. Pad size is more related to heat tolerance than braking force. Larger pads and rotors can better dissipate heat. This becomes important if you're abusing the brakes over and over and over again like in real motorsports competition. On the street, you're unlikely to heat your pads enough for this to be an issue (unless you regularly slow from 100 MPH to 20 MPH multiple times).
The brake fade many people attribute to the brakes is because of the fluid. Replace the stock fluid with something better (like Amsoil, Motul, whatever that blue stuff is) and that sensation will go away.
If you want better braking performance, your first step should be to replace the tires. This topic has been explored many times before and tires are the single largest contributor to braking performance. If you feel that isn't enough, upgrade the pads and the fluid. If you still feel that isn't enough, then look at the big brake kits. There's no point in running out and spending 2000$+ on brakes right out of the gate.
. I answered your question. You've made several false assumptions in your posts. I'll try to address them here.Braking is largely dictated by tires, stickier tires will stop faster than less sticky tires. Have you ever engaged ABS with your Ralliart during a very hard stop? If you answer yes to this (which you should), you're braking system is already maxed out in the sense that it can exert more force than your tires can handle. Upgrade your tires first.
When you break down the forces behind braking, the main contributors are the hydraulic pressure in the system (a relative constant) and the pad material. The size of the pads is irrelevant. I bolded this part because it's something many people ignore. Buying a set of 6-piston calipers with massive 15" inch rotors is unnecessary from a braking force standpoint. Pad size is more related to heat tolerance than braking force. Larger pads and rotors can better dissipate heat. This becomes important if you're abusing the brakes over and over and over again like in real motorsports competition. On the street, you're unlikely to heat your pads enough for this to be an issue (unless you regularly slow from 100 MPH to 20 MPH multiple times).
The brake fade many people attribute to the brakes is because of the fluid. Replace the stock fluid with something better (like Amsoil, Motul, whatever that blue stuff is) and that sensation will go away.
If you want better braking performance, your first step should be to replace the tires. This topic has been explored many times before and tires are the single largest contributor to braking performance. If you feel that isn't enough, upgrade the pads and the fluid. If you still feel that isn't enough, then look at the big brake kits. There's no point in running out and spending 2000$+ on brakes right out of the gate.
Why get brake upgrades if You don't even have 300hp yet. I'd worry about getting the power first then get the brakes. Even then I wouldn't spend my money on brakes. Instead you should go for a nice suspension system (coilover kit, strut & sway bars) and some good track tires.
You will enjoy handling improvements for spirited driving more then a brake kit.
You will enjoy handling improvements for spirited driving more then a brake kit.
Even if you get a high HP car, you don't need to upgrade the brakes so extremely. Unless you plan on massively changing your driving style just because you have more power, if your brakes are fine now, they'll be fine later. From my own experiences, someone who drives like an A-hole will do it with 100 HP or 500 HP, it just takes them longer to get there. I really see no reason to spend so much money on a "track" setup if you're not serious about track. The parts are cool and they certainly add that bling and hoes factor but it's a waste of money. You have to ask yourself how serious you are about it and whether you want to track your daily driven Ralliart. There's a reason why I'm buying a Miata and it isn't power.
No I won't be tracking the car every day but I will be occasionally as well as doing multiple mountain pass drives and drives through twisting terrain (both of which heat your braking system up substancially).
Remember the RA doesn't win any prizes for being the lightest in it's class. The heavier the car the greater force is needed to stop it (combination of tyres, suspension, chassis and BRAKE setups).
Now back OT, it has been answered why the X brakes don't fit (since we apparently have the same if not similar setup to the Evo9) but no one has said what parts differ if attempting to fit the E9 setup.