All-season tires
Mar 18, 2010, 07:23 AM
#31
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All seasons are like a Swiss Army Knife it does many things but excels at none of them.
If (and if being the big word that it is) you can afford winter tires and summer tires that of course would be the optimum choice.
Many people cannot afford 2 sets of rubber (I view it now like extra insurance so cost be damned) so people compromise with all seasons.
And that is it in a nutshell, if you can live or have to live due to economic circumstances with the compromise in safety and performance then all seasons are a valid choice. This of course is evident in many cars you see on the road today.
However if you feel you cannot gamble on either safety or performance then by all means get dedicated winters and summers . For some sacrifice and compromise are akin to fingernails scraping on a chalkboard.
Peace out fellow driving enthusiasts.
If (and if being the big word that it is) you can afford winter tires and summer tires that of course would be the optimum choice.
Many people cannot afford 2 sets of rubber (I view it now like extra insurance so cost be damned) so people compromise with all seasons.
And that is it in a nutshell, if you can live or have to live due to economic circumstances with the compromise in safety and performance then all seasons are a valid choice. This of course is evident in many cars you see on the road today.
However if you feel you cannot gamble on either safety or performance then by all means get dedicated winters and summers . For some sacrifice and compromise are akin to fingernails scraping on a chalkboard.
Peace out fellow driving enthusiasts.
Mar 18, 2010, 07:59 AM
#32
It was my understanding that the Ralliart was marketed as a performance car, not something to drive grandma to church on Sundays. If you've already spent 30000$ to get a twin-clutch transmission, a turbocharged motor, etc., why not spend the extra bit to not only make it more fun in the summer and winter but safer too?
It's like this, for my every day engineering, solid modeling, cad, etc, I can use my laptop, which is mildly high powered and works just fine. So the laptop is a great compromise between being able to do 90% of my design work as well as personal stuff like checking email, browsing the web, etc. I consider the RA like my laptop. If I need to do some heavy FEA, I send it to the workstation.
It's also not a matter of not being able to afford it like most people think. It's getting kind of annoying how people automatically assume you're poor because you drive on all seasons (not you btw, the poster above this); I've probably spent more money snowboarding and biking in the past year than the car is worth. I just don't want to have to deal with the hassle of swapping all the wheels every weekend I go from 70 degree (now) sunny weather to a 30 degree snowy ski resort several hundred miles upstate.
And yes, I carry around a leatherman wave multi-tool with me instead of a separate wrench, needle nose plier, screw driver set and k-bar combat knife. I've NEVER met a hobo I couldn't take down with the built-in drop point in the leatherman.
Mar 18, 2010, 08:51 AM
#33
If you can't afford dedicated winter tires, you shouldn't be buying a car as expensive as the Ralliart, it's as simple as that.
Here's the problem with your example, using your laptop isn't a potential safety hazard, driving on all-seasons is. All-seasons simply are not designed for proper winter use. The difference between all-seasons and proper winter tires is astonishing. Several countries and at least one canadian province have made winter tires mandatory because of the difference in grip and thus safety. It's very easy to exceed the limits of all-season tires in the winter because it boils down to temperature. All-seasons simply cannot have a wide enough temperature range to work properly in the summer heat and the dead of winter. The summer heat isn't a major issue, the tires will just wear more but if they go below their minimum, they're too hard and their level of grip plummets.
Here's the problem with your example, using your laptop isn't a potential safety hazard, driving on all-seasons is. All-seasons simply are not designed for proper winter use. The difference between all-seasons and proper winter tires is astonishing. Several countries and at least one canadian province have made winter tires mandatory because of the difference in grip and thus safety. It's very easy to exceed the limits of all-season tires in the winter because it boils down to temperature. All-seasons simply cannot have a wide enough temperature range to work properly in the summer heat and the dead of winter. The summer heat isn't a major issue, the tires will just wear more but if they go below their minimum, they're too hard and their level of grip plummets.
Mar 18, 2010, 09:08 AM
#34
If you can't afford dedicated winter tires, you shouldn't be buying a car as expensive as the Ralliart, it's as simple as that.
Here's the problem with your example, using your laptop isn't a potential safety hazard, driving on all-seasons is. All-seasons simply are not designed for proper winter use. The difference between all-seasons and proper winter tires is astonishing. Several countries and at least one canadian province have made winter tires mandatory because of the difference in grip and thus safety. It's very easy to exceed the limits of all-season tires in the winter because it boils down to temperature. All-seasons simply cannot have a wide enough temperature range to work properly in the summer heat and the dead of winter. The summer heat isn't a major issue, the tires will just wear more but if they go below their minimum, they're too hard and their level of grip plummets.
Here's the problem with your example, using your laptop isn't a potential safety hazard, driving on all-seasons is. All-seasons simply are not designed for proper winter use. The difference between all-seasons and proper winter tires is astonishing. Several countries and at least one canadian province have made winter tires mandatory because of the difference in grip and thus safety. It's very easy to exceed the limits of all-season tires in the winter because it boils down to temperature. All-seasons simply cannot have a wide enough temperature range to work properly in the summer heat and the dead of winter. The summer heat isn't a major issue, the tires will just wear more but if they go below their minimum, they're too hard and their level of grip plummets.
Mar 18, 2010, 09:23 AM
#35
I go the speed limit as well. Unfortunately our weather has a habit of producing snow on top of ice.
My cost comment was directed at the person above you who said many people cannot afford two sets of tires yet they somehow have money for a new exhaust, intake, coilovers, etc.
My cost comment was directed at the person above you who said many people cannot afford two sets of tires yet they somehow have money for a new exhaust, intake, coilovers, etc.
Mar 18, 2010, 09:59 AM
#36
lol, so true. i love it when people can rationalize making the car go faster before they can actually control it. i personally run 3 sets of tires (winter/summer/track) and i dont understand why it seems so hard for others to do the same. junkyard rims=25bucks each, tops, winter tires=400bucks, 500 bucks to ensure the safety of me, my family, and the car is well worth it, imo.
Mar 18, 2010, 10:18 AM
#38
A simple fact of the matter in this debate is geography. We had the most snowfall in Philly in recorded history (yeah about 125 years for all you crazy climate freaks), and I had to dive on snow covered roads 5 times, and never missed a day of work (technically 4, cause once was just for fun). With that in mind, dedicated snow tires would still have been a little much for this winter, let alone an average winter around here, and btw, the OP is from my area. As I stated before, the Conti DWS handled this beautifully, but the compromise will no doubt be on the hotter summer pavement. No way will they out perform a good summer tire on dry roads, BUT as tested from tire rack, they stand up pretty damn well.
You can compare tires to shoes, but it's a weak argument. I don't wear winter boots every day of winter just in case it snows, and I don't wear sandals in the summer when it rains. But if you wanted to roll with that comparison, you could think of the DWS as a good set of waterproof cross trainers. They'll get you through winter and summer, and you could run a race in them, but they wont perform as good as a pair of winter boots or straight up running shoes.
Considering ones geography greatly changes the need for different tires. Amby is farther north than I, and though he could probably get by with the DWS, dedicated winters make a lot more sense. It's not just an argument over the cost or burden to run two sets of tires, you have to apply a little common sense as well. I wouldn't tell the guys that live in Virginia Beach to run out and buy winter tires next year just because they got 2ft of snow this year (their avg. is 2.5"), but a good set of all seasons might not be a bad idea...
You can compare tires to shoes, but it's a weak argument. I don't wear winter boots every day of winter just in case it snows, and I don't wear sandals in the summer when it rains. But if you wanted to roll with that comparison, you could think of the DWS as a good set of waterproof cross trainers. They'll get you through winter and summer, and you could run a race in them, but they wont perform as good as a pair of winter boots or straight up running shoes.
Considering ones geography greatly changes the need for different tires. Amby is farther north than I, and though he could probably get by with the DWS, dedicated winters make a lot more sense. It's not just an argument over the cost or burden to run two sets of tires, you have to apply a little common sense as well. I wouldn't tell the guys that live in Virginia Beach to run out and buy winter tires next year just because they got 2ft of snow this year (their avg. is 2.5"), but a good set of all seasons might not be a bad idea...
To go back to the shoe argument, all-seasons are like sneakers, you can wear them in the winter and you can wear them in the summer but they're not the best for either of those situations. Will you die? No but in the winter you may slip and fall down and in the summer your feet may get too hot and you'll be uncomfortable.
Mar 18, 2010, 10:43 AM
#39
I'm not suggesting dedicated snow tires, I'm suggesting dedicated winter tires. I agree that snow tires would be excessive for most people in most environments. However, winter tires are a different kind of tire. Winter tires are designed to operate at their peak below freezing, all-seasons are not. They may be advertised as being capable of managing sub-freezing temperatures but they're not designed to work optimally in those temperatures.
To go back to the shoe argument, all-seasons are like sneakers, you can wear them in the winter and you can wear them in the summer but they're not the best for either of those situations. Will you die? No but in the winter you may slip and fall down and in the summer your feet may get too hot and you'll be uncomfortable.
To go back to the shoe argument, all-seasons are like sneakers, you can wear them in the winter and you can wear them in the summer but they're not the best for either of those situations. Will you die? No but in the winter you may slip and fall down and in the summer your feet may get too hot and you'll be uncomfortable.
I rock these all year long.
Note the all-season tread pattern.
Apr 26, 2010, 11:35 AM
#40
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Not trying to rehash this thread, just wanted to post some interesting test results found on tire rack. May help those looking at all seasons for what ever reason, and realize the compromise they are making
Basic comparisons with similar cars:
UHP Summer Tires Tested on 2008 BMW E90 325i Coupe
With UHP All Seasons on 2008 BMW E92 328i Coupe
Basic comparisons with similar cars:
UHP Summer Tires Tested on 2008 BMW E90 325i Coupe
With UHP All Seasons on 2008 BMW E92 328i Coupe
Apr 26, 2010, 01:53 PM
#41
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But the direction of this thread was more the foul weather aspect. Which means All 4 seasons. the DWS in my opinion is the only one I think worthy of ever holding the class as All Season tire. I have driven it in Snow, and its impressive. But even I find myself on the fence on whether I should own the Conti DW or the DWS tire. I have a dedicated Winter tire, and the DW performance is even better in the wet and dry. But on the other hand, I like the fact that the DWS will last forever with the 540 tread life.
I have 10 days to decide thru Conti's Satisfaction program on if I want to trade my tires up for the DW. Both are damn good options
But when it comes to snow. the DWS performs, no question.
Subjective testing in Snow.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=124
Apr 26, 2010, 02:43 PM
#42
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There's no reason to go for a jack-of-all trades all season that will hold up in winter.
If you're gonna say the DWS performs like a winter tires.. i wanna see tests. if it comes close to a winter tire, not really good enough.
Besides... you get 20k on one tire, or like 12k/8k on two sets.. the first way you're gonna replace tires often the other way you keep your tires longer and they also perform better... there isnt too much added costs to it.
If you're gonna say the DWS performs like a winter tires.. i wanna see tests. if it comes close to a winter tire, not really good enough.
Besides... you get 20k on one tire, or like 12k/8k on two sets.. the first way you're gonna replace tires often the other way you keep your tires longer and they also perform better... there isnt too much added costs to it.
Apr 26, 2010, 03:58 PM
#44
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There's no reason to go for a jack-of-all trades all season that will hold up in winter.
If you're gonna say the DWS performs like a winter tires.. i wanna see tests. if it comes close to a winter tire, not really good enough.
Besides... you get 20k on one tire, or like 12k/8k on two sets.. the first way you're gonna replace tires often the other way you keep your tires longer and they also perform better... there isnt too much added costs to it.
If you're gonna say the DWS performs like a winter tires.. i wanna see tests. if it comes close to a winter tire, not really good enough.
Besides... you get 20k on one tire, or like 12k/8k on two sets.. the first way you're gonna replace tires often the other way you keep your tires longer and they also perform better... there isnt too much added costs to it.
You will get no argument out of me that Winter tires are a must. But assuming your restricted to choosing one tire. Say for example in an area that doesnt see much snow, but gets hammered when it does. Vancouver for example gets more rainy weather vs. snow during the beginning and end of winter. With temps the flux up and down. The DWS tire has set a new bar for all season technology.
The life of the tire will be extended if the tire is used in colder and snowy weather regions. And I think the Snow capability wears off at the 40,000km point. which is at or around 50% of the tread life.
Conti has already tentatively okay'd a Mitsu test we are going to do in the fall (not enough snow or time to do it this winter.) A set for the EVO, and a set to be shared with the Ralliart/GTS. 3 way shoot out with an average Winter tire, Vs. OEM tires VS. DWS . I have asked Rally Grandmaster Frank Sprongl to be the independent driver. He has access to an Ice track if Conti can find a suitable location.
its just sad that we gotta wait.
Apr 26, 2010, 04:02 PM
#45
If you live in area that gets hammered with snow ala Calgary, winter tires are a logical choice. If you live somewhere like Vancouver, all-seasons make more sense.
Why not pick a snow tire that is ranked appropriately within its field against the DWS? It seems like this is going to be a rigged test, use a top of the line all-season and compare it to an average winter (which will likely mean a crappy winter tire) and the already known to be crappy stockers. That doesn't accomplish much.
According to Tirerack, the Continental ExtremeContact DWS is the highest ranked all-season tire, period. It's number 1 in the ultra-high performance all-season which is the highest class for all-season tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...jsp?type=UHPAS
Why not pick a snow tire that is ranked appropriately within its field against the DWS? It seems like this is going to be a rigged test, use a top of the line all-season and compare it to an average winter (which will likely mean a crappy winter tire) and the already known to be crappy stockers. That doesn't accomplish much.
According to Tirerack, the Continental ExtremeContact DWS is the highest ranked all-season tire, period. It's number 1 in the ultra-high performance all-season which is the highest class for all-season tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...jsp?type=UHPAS
Last edited by ambystom01; Apr 26, 2010 at 04:09 PM.