Drows

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you Amby for the most part. But our hood and whole front end is different then a GTS isn't it? (grill/bumper) Plus you couldn't see the intercooler? :P

I think the WRX is quite a impressive car numbers wise, I just think it's ugly (I seriously considered it till I saw it). And yes, looks are definitely subjective, but it seems like a lot of people don't like the direction they went with the looks. I LOVE the looks of the older models.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Literally the only clue that it was a Ralliart was the hood. If it was stopped, I'd probably be able to see the intercooler but when it's driving past, it looks like a GTS.

jazket

iTrader: (1)

my accusations where completely towards the '08 hatch model, which merely competes with the Ralliart (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...cleId=121788); And the only time I tried talking down the '09 model is in the fact that it looks like a corolla; It lost its sexappeal, didn't it? You have an older subbie, and I love older subbies, my best friend has one and it's always been my inspiration of a "good, quick awd car";

I've read every single comparo and article regarding the Evo/STI and RA/WRX; I know exactly what I said and why I said it; Edmunds threw a GSR, an MR and a STI and the STI came out last, and won 1 out of 30 categories against the two mitsus; So how is Mitsu the red-headed stepchild? And how many STI's have I seen around here also? one? . . . Maybe Subaru is selling more than Mitsu, but the fact that the car is so ugly makes their owners not want to take it for a spin...

The 08' subbie is slower, tammed, uglier, and the numbers are far worse than that of the Ralliart, not to mention the RA is porkier, has the wrong set of tires, and the wrong type of tranny for such a heavy car; I never said the '09 WRX is worse than the Ralliart, it's the better "performer" but that's as far as it goes; It's got half the tech bits you'll find in the RA; Same as the Evo vs the STI. I'm not trying to come up with Mitus fanboysm, I'm just repeating what's out there, and about 90% car magazines, journalist and car drivers agree that Subbie has lost it to Mitsu -THIS- time around... Or why do you think they went ahead and quickly release an '09 WRX all beefed up? I got the answer: So they could "stay" competitive, right or wrong?

I'm not making baseless accusations when I said the Ralliart owned the WRX with a simple tire swap, cause I did specified they swapped the tires;

And maybe numbers say otherwise, but so far I know about 8 people with Ralliarts down here in SF, and YET again, I've failed to notice an '09 'Rex on the streets... I don't know who's right and who's wrong...

and regarding the looks between the RA/GTS.... at least the RA looks like a car that's worth looking at

And I thought I was biased Amby...

madcows

The '09 WRXs look better than the '08s IMO. The grille is better, the painted rims, and the body-colored piece that now replaces that stupid chrome bar in the back. Over all, I personally don't mind the new WRXs aside from the cheesy center stack, door panels, and awful tail lights. It's a damn good deal, but I still think the R/A has some better drivetrain hardware and creature comforts.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

And the 08 is relevant how? Should we bring the 04 Ralliart into this equation as well? The 08 WRX was a direct competitor, it had virtually identical numbers to the 09 Ralliart. However, Subaru was smart enough to listen to the reviews and changed the car. You cannot now bring up the old car as "proof" that the Ralliart is better.
Yes, the Evo beats the STI, but are we talking about the Evo? Are we in the Evo forum? Do car reviews equate to sales? Nope, in sales, Subaru is proportionally kicking *** and taking names. While I believe their numbers are down, they're not down nearly as much as Mitsubishi. This clearly causes a problem for your theory that the cars are so ugly that nobody is test driving them (and thus buying them).
Actually, I posted a comparison between the 08 WRX and the Ralliart some time ago and *gasp*, the numbers are very very close, the WRX wins in some categories and loses in others. Hardly "far worse" wouldn't you say? Tech is fine but when it causes issues (like the well known transmission issues that I'm sure we've all read about or encountered), it ruins the experience and ultimately distances the driver from the car.
If Subaru just wanted to be competitive, they were fine with the 08. However, they weren't happy just being competitive, they wanted to bring back the feelings people had when they first drove the WRX back in 2002. They wanted to get people excited again and reconnect drivers to the driving experience.
I posted the numbers and the Ralliart did not own the WRX.
I love how the number one issue Mitsubishi owners (well, mainly Ralliart owners) seem to have with Subarus is the looks. If that's the best you can do, Subaru clearly has nothing to worry about. I find it absolutely hilarious how people like to compare their cars to the 08 model while ignoring the fact that the 09 is leaps and bounds ahead and is the car that will actually be cross-shopped with. I guess I should compare my car to the 1994 Evo as proof that Subaru is better than Mitsubishi.

jazket

iTrader: (1)

The thing is, the WRX '08 was the only thing Mitsu was aiming for; They had no idea Subaru was already working on an upgraded WRX for 2009, after like you said (you're agreeing with me now ) they received huge amount of complaints about the WRX loosing its spirit; That's why they had to act, and the '09 WRX has taught the RA a lesson or two; they fixed up most of it, but they forgot or didn't give a damn that 50% of the complaints went towards the style department. I have nothing against the WRX, I freaking love WRXs and STIs all my live I had, I knew WRX/STIs by the time I thought an Evo was some weird looking car that it kind of attracted me a tiny bit for unknown reasons... I just can't bare seeing such a nice thing being turned into a collora hot-rod. In the world I live, not only raw performance takes the prize...



Then if you agree that the Evo is better than the STI in the latter form, we then agree Mitsu is not such a red-headed stepchild; The only reason why I brought up the Evo/STI concern was because it seems like you think Subaru is beating Mitsu because of the car; No, they're owning Mitsu on sales (not to mention, most of their cars are on the negative on sales, Except for the "Impreza" and Tribeca) Subaru is beating Mitsu, Chrysler, even GM who sells more than a million cars in a year; When I said "I highly doubt Mitsu has lost sales to Subaru" it's not about TOTAL sale numbers, is about which car trim/version sells more: Lancers and Outlanders have been selling like hot cake since they were introduce early 2008, damn I can still say I see 20+ 08/09 Lancers on the streets and 1 or 2 Imprezas a week, not to mention the street is crowded with new Outlanders, they're like bird poop. And when I say I haven't seen a single 09 WRX I don't mean there aren't any, I'm referring to the area in which I live/drive by; maybe in another state, Lancers/RA/Evos are not even sold and Subaru took the entire slice of the cake... who knows



You're right, I went completely off on that "far worse" comment; It's actually a couple numbers not like the RA "spanks" the 08, but it did exactly what Mitsu wanted, kick the WRX while it was on the floor and get some attention on the younger, tuner, -not able to afford a Rally Rocket- crowd

Nope, if they would've felt they were competitive they would've just kept the WRX the way it was; A WRX that's slower than the RA is not a competitive car, it falls right behind; Subaru didn't want to stay in that ground for too long, seeing as how the Evo X went ahead of their STI; It would've been suicide for Subaru, Mitsu had already won a lot of props for their whole Lancer line and car magazines, tuners and enthusiasts were slowly forgetting about the WRX/STI; Subaru definitively came around like a ragging bull once they released the '09 WRX


I hate to compare an 09 Mitsu to other 08 cars, but you know Mitsubishi is ALWAYS late with their releases

the RA didn't own the WRX in the last comparison, but it beat it at the slalom; you, me and edmund's agree on that;

Remember this was not a Mitsu is better than Subie argument, I simply stated the way I felt regarding the WRX, how Subaru clearly screwed up back in 2008 and how they understood and did something about it and that I didn't agree when this guy said "Mitsu has lost sales to Subaru cause of the 09 WRX"; Yes, what I said is still true, Subbie did screw up a little, otherwise they wouldn't have come up with the 09 WRX, ; Don't you see the HUGE difference between both 08 and 09 models? I imagine them saying "Oh so yall want a mean WRX??? Well here it goes!... hum, but we'll deal with the style later on"


Edit:
As a matter of fact, I want an '09 WRX dressed in RA clothes

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

What Mitsubishi was aiming for is irrelevant. Nobody is going to be looking at the Ralliart and go "well, Mitsubishi meant well so I'll ignore what the 09 WRX has to offer and just pretend that I'm comparing the Ralliart to the 08 WRX to spare Mitsubishi's feelings".
Styling is subjective. It seems like are plenty of people (including some on here) that have grown to like the new look. Is it a big departure? Sure but at least now the Impreza/WRX is distinctive visually from the STI as opposed to in previous years where the difference was basically just a spoiler (which is easy to change or add).
The Evo is undeniably a better performer than the STI. Whether it's a better car is debatable though. My red-headed stepchild comment was aimed at Mitsubishi's slumping sales, it doesn't matter if you have the better performing car if you can't sell them. The Cobalt SS is an amazing car for the money but Chevrolet is near extinction. Sometimes the better performer isn't the better seller for various reasons (including the very things that make it a better performer). It's important to note that Mitsubishi is also a larger company and has higher absolute sales but, like Chevrolet experienced, this doesn't necessarily translate to better success. If you have 100 dealerships in one state and you only sell 100 cars, you're in trouble. If you only have 10 dealerships and you sell 80 cars, you might make it.
The Ralliart went up against the 08, it by no means kicked it on the ground.
If you look at the numbers, the 08 WRX was virtually identical. Moreover, if you're playing this "if it's slower, it's not competition" card, you've basically written off your own car. It's slower than the 09 WRX, it's slower than the MS3 and it's slower than the SS, I don't think that's an argument you really want to make. The STI has always been "slower" than the Evo but it fares well in real world situations. It's no secret that some feel the STI is a better daily driver compared to the Evo and Subaru seems to be comfortable with this, almost embracing it with the 08/09 STI. I have no idea where you are getting this idea that people are "forgetting" what the WRX and the STI, if anything, more companies are producing parts now including top-level Evo tuners like AMS and Buschur.
The Ralliart with 1000$ worth of rubber beat a bone stock WRX in the slalom, sure by 0.8 MPH while still losing at the skid pad and in the braking test. One win is hardly worth going crazy over. It's a nice indication of it's potential but that's about it. If I was looking for a new car today, I'd be a bit peeved at finding out I needed to spend 1000$ on tires straight away just to keep up in a single respect. That 1000$ could go to an Evo, STI or buying mods for some other, cheaper car.

gccruz

OK!! I think the question was is it available in manual !
The RA is only available in TC sst in the US don't know about the rest of the world. Don't really care. It is a great machine for it's first year in production..... And sa we all know Mitsu will make it better.
Rumors of a manual are just that rumors with a fake article to back them up. The TC sst is great. It is better at shifting than anyone thinks they are. I dont even use the slap stick or the paddles any more unless i'm bored because it does a better job of shifting in both normal and sport. Or it's cuz i'm lazy LOL

gccruz

Oh and it gives you a free had to itch you sak if it needs it!

jazket

iTrader: (1)

Amen to all that; it surely is pointless to spend an extra grand to make a car better than the stock one in ONE category out of the many; And its also true it doesn't make sense having the better performer and not being able to sell it;

madcows

This nonsense again? Both the R/A and WRX are junk - the Ford RS200 reigns supreme!

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Screw the RS200, go for the Lancia Delta Integrale.

madcows

The ford is arguably better looking than the lancia, like how the r/a looks better than the wrx.. lol. Oh, and I assume you're talking about a Delta S4, and not just a "regular" integrale. Even then, I'd still take the RS200 as it's most likely more hardcore. Of course, it doesn't have the twincharger setup of the lancia - oh well.