2009 Lancer Ralliart - GST Basemap
Aug 6, 2012, 06:09 PM
#3406
Oh and also..since you said it has intentional slippage built in if you exceed boost levels.. does that mean that because the tune runs higher boost it will slip more? Want to learn soo badly but there's soo many different things to consider.
Aug 6, 2012, 06:51 PM
#3407
Evolved Member
There is table-based code that compared actual boost to target boost, and dials back the SST-directed torque calculations based on any exceedance.
It wasn't an issue on stock tune, as it didn't walk precise lines of boost targets like our "boostpill" tunes do. We're hugging boost target curves all the time, though, so having deliberate slippage isn't good. All Base Maps have this stuff disabled.
[edit]You're quite correct that at higher boost (ie. torque) levels, we can get more slip. There's been loads of tuning work gone into trying to minimise slip as torque levels are increased. It's a real challenge to get such tuning free from side-effects... which can include delayed response to manual "upshift", rev hang (locks in the current gear at high revs, and just doesn't shift at all), etc.
Being a base street tune for moderately up-tuned Ralliarts, a high priority has to be to avoid unpleasant side-effects. Sometimes that means taking the more moderate road, and giving up some "hardcore" stuff in the interests of driveability!
I honestly haven't tested 115mph WOT upshifts into 6th on this tune - it's not exactly everyday street driving where I live.
If I ever do, it will be on a track, and in SPORT mode.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to go filming yourself at 115mph and uploading it here. Just sayin', lol.
Cheers,
Rich
It wasn't an issue on stock tune, as it didn't walk precise lines of boost targets like our "boostpill" tunes do. We're hugging boost target curves all the time, though, so having deliberate slippage isn't good. All Base Maps have this stuff disabled.
[edit]You're quite correct that at higher boost (ie. torque) levels, we can get more slip. There's been loads of tuning work gone into trying to minimise slip as torque levels are increased. It's a real challenge to get such tuning free from side-effects... which can include delayed response to manual "upshift", rev hang (locks in the current gear at high revs, and just doesn't shift at all), etc.
Being a base street tune for moderately up-tuned Ralliarts, a high priority has to be to avoid unpleasant side-effects. Sometimes that means taking the more moderate road, and giving up some "hardcore" stuff in the interests of driveability!
I honestly haven't tested 115mph WOT upshifts into 6th on this tune - it's not exactly everyday street driving where I live.
If I ever do, it will be on a track, and in SPORT mode.I'm not sure it's a good idea to go filming yourself at 115mph and uploading it here. Just sayin', lol.
Cheers,
Rich
Last edited by richardjh; Aug 6, 2012 at 07:02 PM.
Aug 6, 2012, 10:44 PM
#3408
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That is interesting - and a bit unexpected. That's par for the course with SST...
Tell me...
- Is this remaining judder there when the engine is cold, when it's warmed up, or both? You see, there are HOT and COLD interpolated maps for the area being tweaked. Currently, I'm only editing the HOT map.
- Is the judder now gone for very, very light throttle... but still there a bit if you use a little bit more throttle? As you can see from the pic above, Test_A tweaked 2.4% throttle region, but not so much 5% region. Perhaps if we push into 5%...?
Let me know. Glad it's heading in the right direction, anyway.
Rich
Tell me...
- Is this remaining judder there when the engine is cold, when it's warmed up, or both? You see, there are HOT and COLD interpolated maps for the area being tweaked. Currently, I'm only editing the HOT map.
- Is the judder now gone for very, very light throttle... but still there a bit if you use a little bit more throttle? As you can see from the pic above, Test_A tweaked 2.4% throttle region, but not so much 5% region. Perhaps if we push into 5%...?
Let me know. Glad it's heading in the right direction, anyway.
Rich
Aug 7, 2012, 12:14 AM
#3409
There is table-based code that compared actual boost to target boost, and dials back the SST-directed torque calculations based on any exceedance.
It wasn't an issue on stock tune, as it didn't walk precise lines of boost targets like our "boostpill" tunes do. We're hugging boost target curves all the time, though, so having deliberate slippage isn't good. All Base Maps have this stuff disabled.
[edit]You're quite correct that at higher boost (ie. torque) levels, we can get more slip. There's been loads of tuning work gone into trying to minimise slip as torque levels are increased. It's a real challenge to get such tuning free from side-effects... which can include delayed response to manual "upshift", rev hang (locks in the current gear at high revs, and just doesn't shift at all), etc.
Being a base street tune for moderately up-tuned Ralliarts, a high priority has to be to avoid unpleasant side-effects. Sometimes that means taking the more moderate road, and giving up some "hardcore" stuff in the interests of driveability!
I honestly haven't tested 115mph WOT upshifts into 6th on this tune - it's not exactly everyday street driving where I live. If I ever do, it will be on a track, and in SPORT mode.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to go filming yourself at 115mph and uploading it here. Just sayin', lol.
Cheers,
Rich
It wasn't an issue on stock tune, as it didn't walk precise lines of boost targets like our "boostpill" tunes do. We're hugging boost target curves all the time, though, so having deliberate slippage isn't good. All Base Maps have this stuff disabled.
[edit]You're quite correct that at higher boost (ie. torque) levels, we can get more slip. There's been loads of tuning work gone into trying to minimise slip as torque levels are increased. It's a real challenge to get such tuning free from side-effects... which can include delayed response to manual "upshift", rev hang (locks in the current gear at high revs, and just doesn't shift at all), etc.
Being a base street tune for moderately up-tuned Ralliarts, a high priority has to be to avoid unpleasant side-effects. Sometimes that means taking the more moderate road, and giving up some "hardcore" stuff in the interests of driveability!
I honestly haven't tested 115mph WOT upshifts into 6th on this tune - it's not exactly everyday street driving where I live.
If I ever do, it will be on a track, and in SPORT mode.I'm not sure it's a good idea to go filming yourself at 115mph and uploading it here. Just sayin', lol.
Cheers,
Rich
) I was intending to show me going WOT and show the slippage from first to second and maybe second to third lol. I dont put anything illegal on the internet 
Aug 7, 2012, 12:44 AM
#3410
Evolved Member
Haha, no worries.
I am scratching my head a bit, trying to reconcile this...
and this...
Do you mean part throttle is too rough, but WOT is too sloppy? If so, I'm not really sure I can help with the Base Map. Perhaps you need a custom tune from someone who can take the time to set up your particular car to your particular needs. Using a Base Map as an endpoint tune probably won't do it for ya.
Just being brutally honest here. There should be more brutal honesty in this world, lol.
For now, all I can suggest is to use NORMAL when you want it more accommodating, and SPORT when you want max clutch pressures and firmer shifts.
Excluding 1st->2nd (which is a bit "special"), if you get sloppy upshifts in SPORT then maybe your RA SST is acting differently to most others. Mine is certainly pretty sharp on the upshifts in SPORT mode...
Rich
I am scratching my head a bit, trying to reconcile this...
Do you mean part throttle is too rough, but WOT is too sloppy? If so, I'm not really sure I can help with the Base Map. Perhaps you need a custom tune from someone who can take the time to set up your particular car to your particular needs. Using a Base Map as an endpoint tune probably won't do it for ya.
Just being brutally honest here. There should be more brutal honesty in this world, lol.
For now, all I can suggest is to use NORMAL when you want it more accommodating, and SPORT when you want max clutch pressures and firmer shifts.
Excluding 1st->2nd (which is a bit "special"), if you get sloppy upshifts in SPORT then maybe your RA SST is acting differently to most others. Mine is certainly pretty sharp on the upshifts in SPORT mode...
Rich
Aug 7, 2012, 12:46 AM
#3411
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Hey everybody, im new to this forum and a noob. I drive a 2012 RA USDM on 93 octain. I got my boost pill and tactrix yesterday. Lol take it easy on me for this. My question is I downloaded the v30.005 pre release version and was curious to know if i should wait for a "final" release before i flash my ecu. I am very willing to contribute as much as i can. But being new to this sort of tuning, i want some expert opinions about flashing with a beta version. What do you guys think? Thank you in advance!
Aug 7, 2012, 12:58 AM
#3412
Evolved Member
Hi, and welcome.
Good question. It depends on how well you'll handle seeing a new beta pop up 24 hours after flashing the previous one, lol.
We won't be churning betas like we were earlier this year. However, a v30.006 beta will probably be uploaded within a week, targeting one last little niggle with low-speed 2nd-to-1st selection. I suggest you wait for that one. If you can.
Rich
Good question. It depends on how well you'll handle seeing a new beta pop up 24 hours after flashing the previous one, lol.
We won't be churning betas like we were earlier this year. However, a v30.006 beta will probably be uploaded within a week, targeting one last little niggle with low-speed 2nd-to-1st selection. I suggest you wait for that one. If you can.
Rich
Aug 7, 2012, 01:13 AM
#3413
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Is the current map safe enough for a noob to run? So i can study data pulls from it and just learn from it? I dont mind flashing to the next build when its released. I think of it as practice. In more than one area. But you guys are the wise ones. I just want to learn and give back to the community. And want to go about it in a smart way. Thank you for the quick response by the way Richard. Ive been reading everything in this thread. You sure do know a lot. I could learn tons just from your posts. Thank you for everything you guys have been doing!
Aug 7, 2012, 02:03 AM
#3415
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Sweet! Im going to flash it when i get off work....if i feel like doing it at 6 am lol. But i will post my results when i test them. Thank you again to everybody that has contributed! Much appreciated!
Aug 7, 2012, 03:50 AM
#3416
Ill take the videos and we can see if there's anything that can be done. I'm already considering an ebc and saving up for a custom tune Haha. Any recommendations on who can tune over the internet for me so I wont have to travel far and with tunes I can just switch myself with my tactrix?
And nah part throttle just sometimes has that "judder " or whatever it was being described as but you pointed out 2 guys were testing out a fix to that, so that's ok. I swear at this point I'm 90% just concerned with the slippage... which like I said ill get a video taken ASAP. About to pass out... its 7am here and I still haven't gone to bed. DIY intake took a long time ...
And nah part throttle just sometimes has that "judder " or whatever it was being described as but you pointed out 2 guys were testing out a fix to that, so that's ok. I swear at this point I'm 90% just concerned with the slippage... which like I said ill get a video taken ASAP. About to pass out... its 7am here and I still haven't gone to bed. DIY intake took a long time ...
Haha, no worries.
I am scratching my head a bit, trying to reconcile this...
and this...
Do you mean part throttle is too rough, but WOT is too sloppy? If so, I'm not really sure I can help with the Base Map. Perhaps you need a custom tune from someone who can take the time to set up your particular car to your particular needs. Using a Base Map as an endpoint tune probably won't do it for ya.
Just being brutally honest here. There should be more brutal honesty in this world, lol.
For now, all I can suggest is to use NORMAL when you want it more accommodating, and SPORT when you want max clutch pressures and firmer shifts.
Excluding 1st->2nd (which is a bit "special"), if you get sloppy upshifts in SPORT then maybe your RA SST is acting differently to most others. Mine is certainly pretty sharp on the upshifts in SPORT mode...
Rich
I am scratching my head a bit, trying to reconcile this...
and this...
Do you mean part throttle is too rough, but WOT is too sloppy? If so, I'm not really sure I can help with the Base Map. Perhaps you need a custom tune from someone who can take the time to set up your particular car to your particular needs. Using a Base Map as an endpoint tune probably won't do it for ya.
Just being brutally honest here. There should be more brutal honesty in this world, lol.
For now, all I can suggest is to use NORMAL when you want it more accommodating, and SPORT when you want max clutch pressures and firmer shifts.
Excluding 1st->2nd (which is a bit "special"), if you get sloppy upshifts in SPORT then maybe your RA SST is acting differently to most others. Mine is certainly pretty sharp on the upshifts in SPORT mode...
Rich
Aug 7, 2012, 03:19 PM
#3418
Evolved Member
Yeah, most peoples' defs are flipped. I eventually stopped arm-waving about it. .
in this case, the above "hot" table really IS the hot table.
Keep checking stuff like this, though! Always happy with double-checks...
Rich
.in this case, the above "hot" table really IS the hot table.
Keep checking stuff like this, though! Always happy with double-checks...
Rich
Aug 7, 2012, 11:07 PM
#3419
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Yeah, the "cold" has bigger torque because of the maps "Lower Bound Ignition Timing Adder vs CTS", which does not reduce of timing (at cold engine) when shifting and the torque is not reduced, right?