Hey I am no tuning expert, but you have raise a few great points. I think I should put a few things to the test to see what can come about with a few upgrades and a proper tune. It was be a waste of a whole days dyno rental to pop on the intake and call it a day.

 

I subscribe to the notion that the OEM intake system is more than sufficient for the stock turbo setup, and that any gains from an intake would be had by running a MAF with a larger diameter, and therefore once the car has been tuned for the larger MAF, gains are minimal.

That being said, I wonder how much the improved flow characteristics would help out when running a high flowing stock frame turbo. I'd love to see what this intake system does when the turbo has been upgraded to a CBRD RAD. I believe that real gains over the OEM intake could be made here. I wonder, however, if the snorkel diameter would become an issue at this point.

 

I also feel that the stock intake is more than adequate for a car with reasonably stock levels of performance, or one with some mild modifications. I can tell you that I do think there is some chance that my car might have benefited from an enhnaced intake like the AEM and if it had been available, I would most likley have bought one and found out.

Regretably my car is scheduled to be castrated and returned to basically stock performance, so I will never know. Maybe whoever buys my CBRD turbo may find out?

 

No one has yet to prove the AEM intake in question flows better than stock... only way to know is to measure the pressure drop on the stock intake at the turbo inlet and on the AEM at the turbo inlet... the one with the lowest pressure drop is the least restrictive.... and thus best flowing... and thus will make power AFTER tuning (makes power through less restriciton / better flow rather than tweaking fuel and or boost).

 

Plan:

Get a slightly bigger turbo, then work around the new TC for your Power mods.

Reality:
As for me the flash tune and pill are fine, if I was to go anymore I'd worry about stopping power and suspension before unbalancing the car further...

 

dont think its out yet, not on aem

 

Agreed, this would be the way AEM should have tested the intake, but I suppose about 95% of their customers won't ever bother with a tune so it makes no sense to try to sell intakes by giving pressure drop numbers. Dyno sheets showing gains sell product. I suppose they could have done both tests. Sadly, for most of us, pressure drop testing is beyond what we can do, and so we'd need to go back and look at dyno sheets to see the difference the intake makes after a tune.

What I was saying in my earlier post was that I don't think the stock turbo will be able to pull enough air through the intake to show any appreciable gains even if there are flow improvements over stock. A CBRD RAD turbo, on the other hand, should pull enough air through the intake that if there are actual flow improvements over stock, a dyno test will show some kind of gains. This is assuming, of course, that the car being tested has been tuned for intake it's using prior to doing the dyno test for gains. My university days come back to me here... if the cars aren't tuned the same way, this is a confounding variable, which, if not addressed, means the results of testing are meaningless. Take note, AEM, if you were to present your findings to a university panel, they'd roast ya, and then you'd fail your thesis defense...

 

I guess I am confused because most of the time I read that you see gains from mods when they are tuned, but now you are saying the gains on the intake come when the car is stock?

 

What I meant here is that the cars need to be tuned the same way. For example, if you're running one of Bryan's basemaps, if you want to compare that tune with a stock intake and an AEM intake, you need to tune the car using the AEM so that the AFR remains the same for either intake. This will allow you to test for the difference in flow (and ONLY flow) between either intake. If you see gains, you know it was only because the intake flows better, and not because the intake is using a larger MAF and leaning the car out. There are too many variables at work that can generate gains by changing intakes. The primary reason (if not the onyl reason) to change an intake for another one is because the new one flows better. If the new intake does not flow better, but still shows gains, then its just causing the engine to run leaner. You can do the same by tuning if you wanted.

Like Mad_SB said, you can determine the flow difference by checking the pressure drop at the turbo inlet. This would be an easier and more accurate way to determine the difference, but most of us don't have a way to do this. So, the method i'm talking about would be to tune both cars the same and check the power difference. If one car makes more power than the other, than it is using an intake that flows better (once tuned, the afr remains the same, but if there is more airflow, then at the same afr there will be more fuel relative to the other intake, thus more power). I don't believe that the stock turbo can pull enough air through the intake for the two intakes to show any difference in flow, however.

 

Okay that makes sense. Plus after more reading I understand some people think that the intake messes with A/F to create some power stock but when tuned you can achieve results the same way and not many intakes if any show more power gains after the tune unless you upgrade to bigger turbo. Is that correct?

Is it proven you do not need a tune for the AEM then? I thought every intake needed a tune. A buddy of mine bought the UR and he still needed a tune.

 

I think you've got it.

You'd need to tune any intake that has a different sized MAF sensor from stock, to allow the ECU to scale for the new MAF size. Larger diameter MAF+no tune = leaner. Scaled for the MAF diameter, AFR numbers return back to stock. At this point, the only difference is how much the intake can flow. You'll be surprised (or maybe not) to find that once tuned, the gains aren't much different from a stock intake RA with a tune. If your intake is sufficient to flow enough air for the stock turbo, then it is not the limitation. In this case, upgrading the intake won't do much, since you have other limiting factors, such as a small stock turbo. With a bigger turbo, more air is drawn through the intake, and it can now become the limitation in the system.

 

Thanks for explaining further.