Issues with shift spike and timing, and..
#1
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Issues with shift spike and timing, and..
...mild knock on medium aggressive acceleration.
OK so I'm taking some logs of this new tune, and I'm having 3 problems:
1)Some pretty bad up-shift spike
2)Consistent knock when getting on throttle from a dead stop, medium aggression
3)Up-Shift Timing is WAY off of the Lower Bound Timing look-up value
For example, small sample of repeated isses:
And here is my LBT:
OK so I'm taking some logs of this new tune, and I'm having 3 problems:
1)Some pretty bad up-shift spike
2)Consistent knock when getting on throttle from a dead stop, medium aggression
3)Up-Shift Timing is WAY off of the Lower Bound Timing look-up value
For example, small sample of repeated isses:
2ByteRPM | Load | AFR | KnockSum | TimingAdv | Boost | TPS | Speed | WGDC_Active |
785 | 29 | 13.90 | - | 13 | (6.3) | 18 | - | - |
852 | 44 | 13.90 | - | 16 | (1.7) | 24 | - | - |
1,129 | 63 | 13.63 | 4 | 20 | (1.0) | 27 | - | - |
1,594 | 63 | 13.05 | 5 | 23 | (1.2) | 28 | - | - |
1,957 | 66 | 12.26 | 4 | 27 | (1.0) | 29 | - | 1.0 |
2,063 | 70 | 12.89 | 3 | 26 | (0.9) | 29 | - | 1.0 |
2,016 | 71 | 13.28 | 2 | 25 | (0.5) | 29 | - | 1.0 |
1,949 | 73 | 13.44 | 1 | 24 | (0.1) | 30 | 2 | 2.0 |
1,918 | 76 | 13.86 | - | 25 | 0.3 | 30 | 2 | 3.5 |
1,938 | 78 | 13.90 | - | 24 | 0.7 | 32 | 2 | 7.0 |
1,996 | 82 | 13.79 | - | 23 | 1.1 | 32 | 6 | 7.5 |
2,027 | 84 | 13.59 | - | 22 | 1.3 | 31 | 6 | 6.5 |
2,055 | 86 | 13.63 | - | 23 | 1.6 | 31 | 6 | 5.5 |
2,137 | 87 | 13.86 | - | 22 | 1.7 | 30 | 6 | 3.0 |
2,242 | 88 | 13.51 | - | 23 | 1.6 | 30 | 6 | 2.0 |
2,438 | 88 | 13.28 | - | 24 | 1.4 | 29 | 11 | - |
2,613 | 86 | 13.28 | - | 26 | 0.8 | 27 | 11 | - |
2,785 | 84 | 13.71 | - | 27 | 0.7 | 28 | 11 | - |
2,973 | 82 | 13.59 | - | 29 | 0.6 | 27 | 11 | - |
3,137 | 83 | 13.55 | - | 29 | 0.6 | 28 | 15 | - |
3,363 | 85 | 13.71 | - | - | 0.7 | 28 | 15 | - |
3,035 | 92 | 13.16 | - | (6) | 2.6 | 29 | 15 | - |
2,438 | 101 | 13.32 | - | 7 | 5.0 | 31 | 15 | 5.5 |
2,453 | 107 | 13.90 | - | 18 | 5.1 | 32 | 19 | 7.5 |
2,613 | 110 | 13.90 | - | 18 | 5.2 | 32 | 19 | 7.5 |
2,672 | 114 | 13.59 | - | 17 | 5.4 | 32 | 19 | 7.5 |
2,801 | 117 | 13.32 | - | 17 | 5.5 | 32 | 19 | 6.5 |
2,910 | 114 | 13.28 | - | 19 | 5.9 | 32 | 19 | 5.5 |
3,059 | 116 | 13.75 | - | 20 | 6.0 | 32 | 22 | 5.0 |
3,199 | 115 | 13.59 | - | 22 | 5.9 | 32 | 22 | 5.0 |
3,328 | 114 | 13.01 | - | 22 | 5.6 | 32 | 22 | 5.0 |
3,445 | 113 | 13.28 | - | 23 | 5.5 | 32 | 22 | 5.0 |
3,535 | 112 | 13.36 | - | 23 | 5.2 | 32 | 27 | 5.0 |
3,660 | 111 | 12.69 | - | 25 | 5.1 | 32 | 27 | 5.0 |
3,789 | 110 | 11.52 | - | 25 | 4.7 | 32 | 27 | 5.0 |
3,957 | 110 | 11.33 | - | 7 | 4.4 | 32 | 27 | 6.5 |
3,711 | 114 | 10.98 | - | 5 | 5.6 | 33 | 31 | 6.5 |
3,246 | 116 | 10.08 | - | 7 | 6.6 | 33 | 31 | 7.5 |
3,063 | 119 | 11.09 | - | 20 | 6.4 | 33 | 31 | 8.0 |
And here is my LBT:
10 | 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | 60 | 70 | 80 | 90 | 100 | 120 | 140 | 160 | 180 | 200 | 220 | 240 | 260 | 280 | 300 | 320 | ||
500 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | |
1000 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -12 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | |
1500 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -13 | -12 | -10 | -13 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | -14 | |
2000 | -16 | -16 | -16 | -16 | -16 | -16 | -16 | -16 | -16 | -14 | -13 | -12 | -9 | -10 | -10 | -10 | -11 | -11 | -11 | -12 | -12 | |
2500 | -17 | -17 | -17 | -17 | -17 | -17 | -17 | -16 | -14 | -12 | -10 | -8 | -5 | -6 | -6 | -7 | -8 | -8 | -8 | -9 | -10 | |
3000 | -18 | -18 | -18 | -18 | -18 | -18 | -17 | -15 | -13 | -9 | -7 | -6 | -1 | -2 | -4 | -4 | -5 | -6 | -7 | -8 | -8 | |
3500 | -19 | -19 | -19 | -19 | -19 | -18 | -15 | -13 | -11 | -7 | -4 | -2 | 1 | 0 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6 | -7 | -8 | |
4000 | -19 | -19 | -19 | -19 | -17 | -16 | -15 | -12 | -10 | -5 | -3 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | -1 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -7 | -8 | |
4500 | -19 | -19 | -17 | -16 | -14 | -12 | -13 | -10 | -8 | -4 | -2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -6 | -7 | |
5000 | -18 | -16 | -15 | -13 | -12 | -10 | -10 | -7 | -4 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 0 | -1 | -3 | -5 | -6 | |
5500 | -16 | -14 | -13 | -11 | -10 | -8 | -6 | -4 | -2 | 1 | 3 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | -2 | -4 | -5 | |
6000 | -14 | -13 | -11 | -10 | -8 | -7 | -6 | -4 | -2 | 1 | 3 | 5 | 7 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | -2 | -4 | -5 | |
6500 | -12 | -11 | -9 | -8 | -6 | -5 | -2 | 0 | 2 | 5 | 5 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | -2 | -4 | -5 | |
7000 | -9 | -8 | -7 | -5 | -4 | -3 | 1 | 3 | 6 | 8 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | -2 | -4 | -5 | |
7500 | -7 | -6 | -5 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 2 | 4 | 7 | 9 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 7 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 1 | -1 | -3 | -4 | |
8000 | -5 | -4 | -3 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 8 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 8 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 0 | -2 | -3 |
#2
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So first off lets view the up-shift occurring at 3250-3500 X 80-90
According to LBT s/b (13)*, not 0 or (6)???
This is an issue because if I can't get timing to match up with the look-up value, correcting that boost spike is going to be a b!tch. While 0.6 to 2.6 might not be much of a spike, you should have seen it at full speed when it boosts from 22-23 all the way up to 26.5
According to LBT s/b (13)*, not 0 or (6)???
This is an issue because if I can't get timing to match up with the look-up value, correcting that boost spike is going to be a b!tch. While 0.6 to 2.6 might not be much of a spike, you should have seen it at full speed when it boosts from 22-23 all the way up to 26.5
![Crap](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/images/smilies/crap.gif)
Last edited by sstevojr; Sep 20, 2011 at 08:32 PM.
#3
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I can help you with (1) and (3). I've done lots of work in this area.
Want to do it online, or take it offline and thrash it out via PMs, emails?
Happy either way.![Smilie](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Rich
Want to do it online, or take it offline and thrash it out via PMs, emails?
Happy either way.
![Smilie](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Rich
#4
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Oh and one more thing, has any found that dang down shift table that defaults everything to (15)*? Man seeing the corresponding spikes from those shifts, yikes!
#5
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haha, Rich! You know I was thinking where to vent this and my options where:
1) RA Turbo: where Rich has his AU Logging thread
2) X Tuning: where I started talking w/ Rich
3) Send a PM to Rich
1) RA Turbo: where Rich has his AU Logging thread
2) X Tuning: where I started talking w/ Rich
3) Send a PM to Rich
#7
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Yeah, I really hated seeing 25psi during SST upshift, when I had carefully tuned for 22psi. Nowadays, I'm tracking 21.5psi until 5500rpm, and SST upshift rarely even touches 23psi.
It's not one single "fix" - it involves a number of changes, all working together. That includes two ROM patches.
Be aware you'll be the first to run the patches on your ROM. But not the last, I'm sure!! Welcome to guinea-pig status. ![Big Grin](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
With the boost control tweaks in question, you'll find your initial boost peak (post-spool) has less of that big overshoot thing... if any. I realise some people like the seat-of-the-pants feel of that, but I'm not a fan - it upsets my car's balance coming out of a corner. I do understand the attraction of it - this is just me showing my n/a track driving roots!
But yeah, I reckon we can tame your SST upshift boost issue. If you're happy with the direction, let's go to work.![Thumbs Up](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif)
Rich
It's not one single "fix" - it involves a number of changes, all working together. That includes two ROM patches.
![PC Freak](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/images/smilies/freak.gif)
![Big Grin](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
With the boost control tweaks in question, you'll find your initial boost peak (post-spool) has less of that big overshoot thing... if any. I realise some people like the seat-of-the-pants feel of that, but I'm not a fan - it upsets my car's balance coming out of a corner. I do understand the attraction of it - this is just me showing my n/a track driving roots!
But yeah, I reckon we can tame your SST upshift boost issue. If you're happy with the direction, let's go to work.
![Thumbs Up](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif)
Rich
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#8
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Funny you say that, because the whole reason I'm out logging is that I didn't like the jolts from the timing values jumping up and down (I wanted a smooth strong pull, with better mid range than peak values). So I used Excel to smooth out the High and Low Octane Timing Tables, which feels SOOOOO much better for daily driving, and is a whole lot nicer on my drive shaft. It's not so much of a kick in the pants, but like you mentioned, coming out of corners I don't have to worry so much the kick to the rear diff, etc.
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Which I'm trying to work on, but if I can't get partial throttle timing to match up with the LBTT, how can I possibly fix this?
EDIT: and no, for WOT @7k its ~13*
EDIT: and no, for WOT @7k its ~13*
Last edited by sstevojr; Sep 20, 2011 at 10:04 PM.
#14
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Ahaaaaa, that explains why WOT is pretty smooth (and why I'm trying to clean up partial throttle for DD)
Hmmmm, have you figured out what its querying, or for that matter why downshifts default to (15)?
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