The x isn't overkill or too much, but what's the point of going to a x swap for more money when the rad produces the same results at a cheaper price. No point if your Hp goal is only 320-340. If I had plans to ever go higher I'd go for a x swap cause it opens options, but I don't. And Robert is very knowledgeable, no doubt about that, but he knows it and isn't exactly humble about it. That's my opinion. We all have em, so no need to argue, just explaining my reasoning.

 

but that's why I emphasize to everyone, the turbo defines the car. Numbers don't tell the story - there's a reason dyno's give out graphs and not just numbers. You pick your turbo for the powerband and spool you want - not the numbers.

when I switched tuners, the dyno wasn't in yet so I had no idea what numbers I was putting out - and I didn't care. I got to drive Evo's all the time, especially stock ones when I worked at the dealership. I didn't care that my Ralliart was faster or put out higher numbers - I loved the way the X turbo spooled. The X would give you a deep punch of torque and a very FAT powerband through spool-up - the RA was like a kid hyper on sugar hitting you hard with a rubber mallet. It's hard to explain, but experienced tuners who've sat in all kinds of Evo builds know that the turbo is everything.

The best thing that happened to me was being completely blind to the numbers I was putting out. I wouldn't care if the stock turbo or RAD could output 400, I hated how it felt in comparison - split-second spool-up, and the rest of the 4k+ rpm is spent feeling the torque just shed off in front of me.

If I'm going to spend money to do a turbo swap, I want something different. Spending all that money/time/labor swapping a turbo that's like stock, just at 150% (random guess at %)? Meh, I'll just save the money then. I don't like the stock turbo because of how it feels, not because of how much whp it produces

So when I hear someone say they want to swap turbos purely to hit 300whp, it makes me facepalm. Imagine if every dyno in the world read the RA turbo as 300whp capable for some reason - would you still want to turbo swap then?

Just my 2cents

 

^^That makes sense for your goals Exyia. You (and I) would prefer a deeper power band that takes a hair longer to get into; but at highways speeds will pull a whole lot harder. This type of turbo is better for road & drag racing, and living in the 'burbs.
Other people prefer instant go, rarely (if ever) taking their car's over 5k rpm. This type of turbo is better suited to auto cross and living in the city.
The main point of all this being, sit down and figure out your goals and priorities, then move forward from there. As Exyia so eloquently put it:

 

Yep, all very true! And if you come from an n/a background like I do, even the RA turbo seems to take an age to spool up.

With the Ralliart's cooling issues (various), auto-x is a bit more accessible than long-track comps, IMO. Smaller brakes, no oil cooler, woeful stock SST cooling, etc. But none of these are a major disadvantage for a short-course blast.

So I'd probably lean towards the RAD for that very reason. Small t/c with less legs up top... would just suit me better.

Rich

 

Rich, speaking of cooling, have you noticed how amazing this 4B11 is at maintaining coolant temps??? I drove the car to withing 80-85% on a 2 mile road course in 108*(F) weather and it just shed off heat like it was nothing! But conversely this engine does not enjoy low coolant temps in the cold am(about as happy as it is in 5th at medium load ). Definitely have to be nice 'til warm-up, for longevity sake, haha!

 

and see, that's the part that annoys me (no offense)

people for some reason think the stock X turbo is "overkill" and not as DD as the TD04. I'm sorry, but the X turbo is better in practically every way. There's hardly a loss in spool at all, and if you're good at auto-x, the spool doesn't matter. With the SST, you should never drop out of spool range. I am constantly over 4.5k rpm on auto-x, even on tight turns - in both the RA and the X.

the point I'm trying to make is that 300whp is just a number. wanting to upgrade turbo's because you want 300, and then choosing the RAD for that is a pretty stupid reason to go as far as spending money on a turbo upgrade. Do you actually want 300whp or are you just tired of your stock RA turbo running out of breath after 3.5k rpm? Chances are it's the second, but some people are blinded by thinking hitting the magical 300 will fix it

Not saying the RAD is a bad turbo, but you have to ask yourself WHY you're going past bolt-ons and upgrading the turbo. Go to meets, try to get some experience in other turbos, or even just a stock X testdrive from a dealership. The X turbo just has a deeper power delivery - the RA feels like a kid hyped up on sugar and then crashing. Nothing changes when you hit a magical whp number

 

aluminum 4b11t ftw

 

I realise that you are not all that keen on the magical 300, but for me to get from 185kw (248hp) to hit the 300hp (223kw) would be a pretty decent bang for buck improvement. The cost, plus ease of installation compared to the full evo x conversion makes it a pretty decent upgrade. Sure, the limits would be reached but how much can we really push the ra anyway? I did have plans of a FP green / bbx, but I'll tweak all the suspension bits next to really improve the ride (I already have coil overs sway bar etc) and then get a track only ride to go nuts on

I'll post the dyno results when I get the car back from the tuners tomorrow - I'm really keen to the the power delivery of the rad and how much difference it really makes

 

Spun off into new thread...

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/dr...ml#post9710311

Rich

 

What he said...

And your talking about the RAD running out of breath up top and not holding power all the way through... but it does. That's the entire reason for the upgrade.

RAD Lite


Evo X Stock Turbo on RA


As you said, we ignore power and look at the curve.. they look very similar to me.. yes the evox has is slightly to the left... but really, is the extra work and money worth it? To me, no. To you, yes. it's all preference. And this thread was never about if the RAD was worth it, it was about how to get one... If you don't want one, why the hell are you in here telling people who have different opinions than you they are wrong. Go elsewhere.

 

but to play devils advocate, on that RAD chart, the torque looks like it falls off in the EXACT same curve than before. so I'm going through all that trouble to swap for a turbo that's just +% of stock?

if you look at that X chart you provided, looks like a tune issue to me. Here's one with practically nothing but the X turbo (compared to the full bolt-on that the CBRD has). Tuned by bryan - and you'll see how he gets the torque to hold and not taper as dramatically


https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...-10-turbo.html

and no reason to get all hostile; not saying the RAD is bad or wrong, I'm just saying some people are blindly picking it for the wrong reasons - "300whp" as if their car is going to magically change once it hits that number

doing a turbo swap is a significant step over bolt-ons. especially if you don't/can't do the install yourself. with labor cost, it's a pretty big investment that you will probably never get back if you decide to sell the car or you wanted more power later on, as the labor to remove it and install the stock might be just as much as its worth. it's a big decision that should be thought through thoroughly. I strongly dislike how many people are treating this like a simple exhaust purchase

 

I'm not getting hostile, just pointing out this isnt really the thread for this discussion. If you want to have a RAD vs EvoX Stock Turbo discussion, start a thread for it. Don't come in a thread about where to find a RAD turbo and do it..

And I like the chart you provided more as well. Had I been able to find that one I would have used it. It does seem more accurate.

Your right that people shouldn't blindly go for specific HP. I completely agree this isn't the solution for everyone, and if you are taking it to a shop to have the work done, just buy the EvoX stuff and let them worry about the random fitting that's needed, missing hose, fabbing up an intake solution, etc... I mean, if your already paying someone to do a ton of work, may as well pay em to do a bit more.

I forget that some people have everyone else do the work on their cars and still consider themselves "a modder", so I do think of a turbo swap as similar to an exhaust, in the case of something like the RAD at least... but for those paying someone to do it... not so much.

For me, I will be doing all the wrenching myself, and if I knew how to tune, would also do that myself. With that in mind, I don't feel like messing with swapping manifolds, running all the lines, figuring out some hacked up air box solution, etc... I just want to unbolt a turbo (not all that difficult, done it before, though not on this car), bolt on another, get tuned, and be done with the car for a few years while I raise my first son due in December...

On a side note, I guess this thread has become a bit of a X Swap vs RAD thread... any mods wanna branch it off so people can more easily find it?

 

Removed from the other thread for further discussion on this SPECIFIC topic...

 

So what are your ideas on max hp output for the RAD plus proper supporting bolt-on mods? Are we looking at a climax of 350?

 

What is the cost for each?