Ive been looking to put a CIA on my car before I turn to corn but wasnt sure if it is safe to run a CIA. So is it safe to run the CIA the only problem I see is the trans cooler being right behind it.

 

I have a CAI and I'm planning to go to a RAM intake.

1. Seems my turbo don't like it when it rains and yes I have a hydro shield around it.
2. It sits behind the highly important transmission cooler. Well the one I have does.
3. If u have bigger than stock wheels your tires my tear up the filter on sharp turns.

I have the Injen CAI. I'm going with a small battery and ETS Intake.

 

So the CIA is behind the trans cooler not in front of it.

 

For the one I have yes. Not sure about the others.

 

I've never heard of putting a CIA on a car.

Central Intellegence Agency on my Ralliart? I think I'll pass.

Now a CAI! Cold Air Intake might be cool. However, if you've noticed on even the Evo, not a whole lot of places make CAI's for it.

Why? Our engine is NOT naturally aspirated. The turbo SUCKS air and compresses it which then shoots it through an intercooler which cools it down, then up into our intake.

Being that turbo's run off engine exhaust, and the entire turbo gets pretty damn hot, why would you want to draw in cold air to have it heated, then cooled again. Seems like kind of a waste to me.

I think I'll just go with the AEM box. I've heard it's pretty amazing.

 

???????
The ambient air gets sucked up by the comperssor side of the housing then gets pressurized into the intercooler and then to the air intake. The colder the air the more density u have and the more power u can extract!

Now if the turbo is red hot on the exhaust side is only going to make a minor difference to the air coming to the compressor side of the turbo.

 

Yeah, 5 degrees cooler at the very start is better.


This CAI stuff often comes up when people are choosing from the following three approaches...

1. Retaining a woefully inefficient factory induction system (which ours isn't) that sucks air from the cavity behind the front spoiler, through a convoluted series of "pinched" ducting... usually designed to minimise noise, fit around tight corners, and be as cheap as possible to manufacture.

2. Slapping a free-flowing "pod" style air filter on a nice, short bit of piping to make MOAR POWAH... but then sucking in all that hot air from the engine bay.

3. Making a custom induction piping system that still uses afree-flowing pod air filter, but uses longer, sensibly designed ducting to locate said filter somewhere directly in cold airflow.

3a. Bonus setup. Making some wacky air capture duct like a big funnel, and calling it RAM AIR AWESOMENESS 1000 HORSEPOWER INDUCTION.


Folks with small displacement n/a engines love this crap. I did, when I drove one. I built something like option [3] on my old 2 litre n/a, but still sucked air from behind the front spoiler.


The RA induction system honestly looks pretty good. The Evo X setup is better, but they have a better flowing t/c from the factory, whereas ours... well...


I really don't like the idea of an induction system sucking air from BEHIND the SST cooler. I've got a fan fitted on that cooler, and when it's on, look out... The amount of hot air coming out of the vent into the front-left wheel arch is unbelievable. It's so hot, you can hardly hold your hand between the tyre and the wheel-well vent. Would I want that air going into my engine? Noooo way.

The extra "efficiency" from the ducting design and pod filter flow would be great, but on the other side of the ledger would be the increased intake air temps... particularly when it counts - at the track, after a long drive, or taking off from a standing start.

For a good CAI, better to draw from a place that actually has cold air!

My 2c worth.

Cheers,

Rich

 

Check out the DIY/how to post on the diy short ram intake. I posted a link to the BMW forum that did testing on a hot air intake (short ram).

tl;dr version - the intercooler cools the air to whatever it can (dependent on ambient temp in other words as its an air-to-air intercooler), the higher IAT means nothing post-intercooler.

Corollary to that is that the lower IAT from a CAI means very little post turbo as it ends up the same as stock or HAI post-intercooler. That one isn't in the BMW forum link, but you can google it. Basically, the longer intake path with a CAI is the opposite of what you want with a turbocharged motor, and post-compressor (and post-intercooler), the initial temp difference doesn't matter anyways.

Caveat - the Ralliart intercooler is better than nothing at all but anything else (replacement intercooler in other words) is better.

 

Ambient air makes a huge difference, I can feel the difference from driving from night time and day time on how my car reacts. I agree with that CAI is something we don't need for all the above reasons people post that the stuff our car does need is better Pipping and Intercooler which is what will make the major difference. AMS, AEM, COBB, CBRD, ETS and many others all make great Short RAM Intakes for our cars. It's mostly preference from the buyers view. I like ETS Black Intake w/ heatshield and keep the exo x snorkal and a small battery is what I'm going to.

If it rains in ur area don't get a CAI! it don't rain much in El paso but I hated to drive it in the rain because of the CAI. I agree with rich on the SST Transmittion fan for cooling, it's much needed in our cars and will help keep the tranny nice and cool :-)

 

TOTALLY. I thought the days of me feeling my intercooler heat soak in traffic were done with since the RA has a FMIC compared to the side mount on my audi....I was wrong lol. (Even my gti, whose intercooler is literally the size of the AC condenser would heat soak in traffic).

Re: CAI + rain -- agreed. People like to say that you can only hydrolock your motor if you go through a lake and floor it but tell that to two of my friends. I was with them and it wasn't a huge lake or even what you'd call a puddle that killed their motors. One required a whole new motor (b18c1 swapped into an EG civic), the other just contributed to its slow death (b18c5 itr motor). Plus, Mini owners have horror stories of hydrolocking their motors with a STOCK intake system when they got splashed by a passing semi truck!

 

That doesn't fit with how I understand the laws of physics.


Think about it for a moment. Forget where the air is coming from before the turbocharger, or how hot it is. Simplify things. Look at it from the point of view of the intercooler.

Here, let's boil this down... The KISS Principle...


The IC "sees" an incoming air charge that is at a certain temperature.

In this simplistic view, that temperature is purely "post turbo" hot air.

The IC will do its best to reduce that air temp, using whatever efficiency it has (its size, build, speed of ambient airflow, temperature of ambient airflow).


So... on a 25C day, the IC can take incoming hot air at 118C and cool it to 46C. *

Can it take incoming hot air at 138C and cool it to 46C? No.


The way the reference book in front of me describes it is...

The intercooler will remove 80% of the temperature rise.


Now, remember our simplistic view, that ignored the specific COMPONENTS of the temperature rise? Well, let's now go back and say that on a 25C day, the "rise" breaks down as...


With air sucked in at 25C, the "rise" to 118C...
+ 93C from charge compression
+ 0C due to good induction location

With air sucked in at 45C, the "rise" to 138C...
+ 93C from charge compression
+ 20C due to good induction location


The first example will see post-IC temp REDUCTION of (118-25) x 80% = 74C
...so post-IC temperature will be 25 + 93 - 74 = 44C

The second example will see post-IC temp REDUCTION of (138-25) x 80% = 90C
...so post-IC temperature will be 25 + 113 - 90 = 48C


Basically, the IC can remove a "percentage" of the extra temperature. Note that "80%" was just an example. Plug in your own percentages and play.


Good point about the RA intercooler. You can kiss "80%" goodbye if you have a factory RA intercooler. It's probably going to ADD its own stored heat after a 30-second spirited drive!


I don't usually get THIS deep into forum posty maths crap, but seeing as I actually shelled out $$ for some reference material, I thought it was appropriate to at least pull it out of the bookshelf, lol.

Rich

* I'm shamelessly using example temps and calcs from "Forced Induction - Performance Tuning" by A. Graham Bell, Chapter 10, "Charge air cooling". Great book.

 

...oh, and regarding my example above:

If you're thinking, "4 degrees C hotter? That's no big deal", don't be so sure.


First off, consider my example of a 20C increase from intake location. My SST cooler has a sensor stuck in it, for my fan controller. I regard it as worthy of being cooled anywhere above 55C. It runs until it sees below 40C. At the track, it runs any time I'm not actually lapping. Indeed, it will switch on as I drive off the track, once speed has dropped to around 20km/h.... so it's ALWAYS well over 55C. I'd expect 75C after thrashing it, easy.

So on a 25C day, that's 50C hotter than ambient!


Second, intercooler efficiency. "80%" sounds awesome. But...

• A slowly moving car means little airflow, so IC efficiency will drop.
• While you can fit a larger IC on a Ralliart, some of it sits behind the front crash bar.
• Few Ralliarts have Evo X style front crash beam cut-outs.
• Ralliarts don't have the plastic air-guide ducting fitted to Evolution X... which will reduce FMIC efficiency.

That's about it for the ol' brain dump, I promise! I've extended this thread length waaaay too far.

Rich

 

Ultimately - colder air is better. That's irrefutable. For the average enthusiast on the street (not on the track were things are far more quantifiable, in terms of tenths or hundredths of seconds), the placebo effect often trumps reality -- one may be losing hp but you've convinced yourself you've gained some.

That being said -- check out the BMW article in that diy intake thread (actually here: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2014) In this instance, the difference in IAT is offset by reduction in restriction (supposedly, but either way, the temps end up the same or cooler).

I still wish I had those other article and test links It was counterintuitive to me as well when I read them too (I'm a software dev and IT admin by trade, not a mechanical engineer) but it was that it's not a simple intake air temp + fixed heat amount from compression - intercooler efficiency percentage = final IAT post-intercooler, but I'm not in a position to refute Mr. Bell without evidence in hand.

 

You and me both, mate!

Rich

 

Somewhere in all that I got lost! Lol! JK!

Like I said earlier I feel the difference on how the turbo reacts when it's Day time compared to night time. The only thing that changes is the ambient temp outside. Which affects the air coming into the intake and how efficient the intercooler cools.

Now the colder the air is the more dense it is going into the intake and the more power it gives you. well it's the simplified version of what has been said lol! So the intercooler does make a huge difference! there is 2 parts to the turbo, Intake and exhaust side! Any improvements to either side will help the turbo ALOT!