E85 hints and tips…
Jul 15, 2008 | 11:33 PM
#1
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From: Tucson, Arizona, USA
E85 hints and tips…
The only essential mods needed for running E85 are a Walbro 255 high output fuel pump, 30% larger injectors, and an E85 tune. That should give you +50whp (with increased boost and timing) on the average lightly modded EVO; figure on getting 15mpg. Good write-up here.
This thread is an attempt to bring together a list of additional and optional items that you might want to consider when converting to E85. I’ll update this list as ideas are added to the thread.
In no particular order...
1. I think it is pathetic that this disclaimer needs to be included, but unfortunately regulation is far behind reality:
Do not tell any regulatory (DMV) or police agencies that you are running E85 since it is technically not legal to do so per the EPA. Even though E85 does spew out less emissions, the EPA has not certified E85 conversion for an Evo. I'm still trying to find references on this. The only thing I found was that E85 conversion is illegal in CA.
2.1. Upgrade your stock ECU to the Tephra map switching functionality. This will allow you to run both a gasoline tune and an E85 tune, and simply switch between the two as needed. Here are two descriptive links: Link One and Link Two. And here is the Tephra mod info.
2.2. Or, here is another idea. Buy an older used laptop and a cigarette lighter power supply for it off eBay, Craigslist, Laptop Trader, Classifieds, etc. Have the laptop all set up with ECUFlash, your separate E85 tune AND your separate 93 tune. Then pack it up real nice and well protected in a cardboard box and toss it in the truck. Now you are all set to make a map switch just in case you need to...whenever...wherever.
3. Do a boost leak test. If you are turning up the wick from, say, 22psi to 28psi, a boost leak test is definitely in order.
4. Upgrade any OEM hose clamps on your I/C plumbing to stouter screw clamps, or to T-bolt clamps. This is simply a precautionary measure I took on my 5 year old EVO; newer cars, not so much. I used the high torque worm drive clamps on this page.
5. Check your oil level more often as running higher boost may likely cause some oil usage.
6. Running higher boost may blow out your oil dip stick, so install a dip stick return spring. BR sells a nice one.
7. Running higher boost may cause increased oil blow through the valve cover vent. You may wish to install a catch can. See RRE item here.
8. Or you may simply want to get the valve cover vent out of the intake, so oil blow can't go into the I/C pipes and FMIC.
9. For track cars you might want to consider simply deleting the PCV valve. See the write up on RRE site here.
10. Consider implementing the CEL flash on knock functionality and data log regularly to ensure your tune is operating as expected. See #11 for the reason why this might be wise.
11. Review, know and understand the 3 classes of ethanol. As I understand it, ethanol mix is not regulated. The ethanol industry has established its own self-regulatory guidelines. See page 7.
Class 1 – Ethanol content min. 79%
Class 2 – Ethanol content min. 74%
Class 3 – Ethanol content min. 70%
Class 1 – Gasoline content min. 17%
Class 2 – Gasoline content min. 17%
Class 3 – Gasoline content min. 17%
Combining the above minimums creates the following range for ethanol content:
Class 1 – Ethanol content min. 79% - max. 83%
Class 2 – Ethanol content min. 74% - max. 83%
Class 3 – Ethanol content min. 70% - max. 83%
As you can see, these are pretty broad ranges. Buyer beware!
12. Check the ethanol class schedule for your area. If/when a class change is made in your area, do some additional data logging to check your tune. You may need to turn down the boost when your area changes to a lower class ethanol – from, say, Class 1 to Class 2.
13. Consider a ‘colder’ spark plug:
If you have an EVO IX, consider Denso IKH24, they are one step colder than OEM.
If you have an EVO VIII, consider colder copper plugs. I use NGK BPR8ES gapped at 0.020”.
14. Consider more frequent oil changes, due to the extra stress of higher boost and the possible oil dilution from running 30% more fuel through the motor. Regular oil analysis might be a worthwhile investment. Oil Doc recommends Oil Analyzers at $27.85. At Blackstone-Labs the cost is only $22.50.
15. Consider adding a serviceable fuel filter in the engine compartment. Ethanol may act like a cleaning agent to your fuel system and “dirt” could clog up your expensive new injectors.
16. You might want to use ECUflash to raise 'idle' and to raise 'idle with A/C on'. Stock cams vs. aftermarket cams will have an affect on this as well. I increased my idle with A/C to 1,100 rpms.
17. It also seemed to me that the off-idle response was dampened a bit on E85 compared to 91. The motor just did not want to rev off of idle as quickly as it does on 91, so I am experimenting with the timing a bit to see if I can improve the off-idle response. I adjusted the idle block like this, which is from this thread. I am not really sure how much additional timing is beneficial. Anyone have any idea? I'm at 14* in the idle block right now.
18. Consider installing head studs if you plan on running boost +25psi and beyond. This is a controversial subject. SEARCH! READ! One-by-one? Pull the head? Oil the threads? Molylube the threads? Like I said, SEARCH! and READ! I’m on stock studs and plan to stay that way.
19. You might want to consider adding an inline sensor and gage to read/verify ethanol content in your fuel system.
20. Fuel mileage is lousy!!! You may want to experiment with open loop idle and cruse, and try leaning these out some.
Please share additional E85 hints and tips…
This thread is an attempt to bring together a list of additional and optional items that you might want to consider when converting to E85. I’ll update this list as ideas are added to the thread.
In no particular order...
1. I think it is pathetic that this disclaimer needs to be included, but unfortunately regulation is far behind reality:
Do not tell any regulatory (DMV) or police agencies that you are running E85 since it is technically not legal to do so per the EPA. Even though E85 does spew out less emissions, the EPA has not certified E85 conversion for an Evo. I'm still trying to find references on this. The only thing I found was that E85 conversion is illegal in CA.
2.1. Upgrade your stock ECU to the Tephra map switching functionality. This will allow you to run both a gasoline tune and an E85 tune, and simply switch between the two as needed. Here are two descriptive links: Link One and Link Two. And here is the Tephra mod info.
2.2. Or, here is another idea. Buy an older used laptop and a cigarette lighter power supply for it off eBay, Craigslist, Laptop Trader, Classifieds, etc. Have the laptop all set up with ECUFlash, your separate E85 tune AND your separate 93 tune. Then pack it up real nice and well protected in a cardboard box and toss it in the truck. Now you are all set to make a map switch just in case you need to...whenever...wherever.
3. Do a boost leak test. If you are turning up the wick from, say, 22psi to 28psi, a boost leak test is definitely in order.
4. Upgrade any OEM hose clamps on your I/C plumbing to stouter screw clamps, or to T-bolt clamps. This is simply a precautionary measure I took on my 5 year old EVO; newer cars, not so much. I used the high torque worm drive clamps on this page.
5. Check your oil level more often as running higher boost may likely cause some oil usage.
6. Running higher boost may blow out your oil dip stick, so install a dip stick return spring. BR sells a nice one.
7. Running higher boost may cause increased oil blow through the valve cover vent. You may wish to install a catch can. See RRE item here.
8. Or you may simply want to get the valve cover vent out of the intake, so oil blow can't go into the I/C pipes and FMIC.
9. For track cars you might want to consider simply deleting the PCV valve. See the write up on RRE site here.
10. Consider implementing the CEL flash on knock functionality and data log regularly to ensure your tune is operating as expected. See #11 for the reason why this might be wise.
11. Review, know and understand the 3 classes of ethanol. As I understand it, ethanol mix is not regulated. The ethanol industry has established its own self-regulatory guidelines. See page 7.
Class 1 – Ethanol content min. 79%
Class 2 – Ethanol content min. 74%
Class 3 – Ethanol content min. 70%
Class 1 – Gasoline content min. 17%
Class 2 – Gasoline content min. 17%
Class 3 – Gasoline content min. 17%
Combining the above minimums creates the following range for ethanol content:
Class 1 – Ethanol content min. 79% - max. 83%
Class 2 – Ethanol content min. 74% - max. 83%
Class 3 – Ethanol content min. 70% - max. 83%
As you can see, these are pretty broad ranges. Buyer beware!
12. Check the ethanol class schedule for your area. If/when a class change is made in your area, do some additional data logging to check your tune. You may need to turn down the boost when your area changes to a lower class ethanol – from, say, Class 1 to Class 2.
13. Consider a ‘colder’ spark plug:
If you have an EVO IX, consider Denso IKH24, they are one step colder than OEM.
If you have an EVO VIII, consider colder copper plugs. I use NGK BPR8ES gapped at 0.020”.
14. Consider more frequent oil changes, due to the extra stress of higher boost and the possible oil dilution from running 30% more fuel through the motor. Regular oil analysis might be a worthwhile investment. Oil Doc recommends Oil Analyzers at $27.85. At Blackstone-Labs the cost is only $22.50.
15. Consider adding a serviceable fuel filter in the engine compartment. Ethanol may act like a cleaning agent to your fuel system and “dirt” could clog up your expensive new injectors.
16. You might want to use ECUflash to raise 'idle' and to raise 'idle with A/C on'. Stock cams vs. aftermarket cams will have an affect on this as well. I increased my idle with A/C to 1,100 rpms.
17. It also seemed to me that the off-idle response was dampened a bit on E85 compared to 91. The motor just did not want to rev off of idle as quickly as it does on 91, so I am experimenting with the timing a bit to see if I can improve the off-idle response. I adjusted the idle block like this, which is from this thread. I am not really sure how much additional timing is beneficial. Anyone have any idea? I'm at 14* in the idle block right now.
18. Consider installing head studs if you plan on running boost +25psi and beyond. This is a controversial subject. SEARCH! READ! One-by-one? Pull the head? Oil the threads? Molylube the threads? Like I said, SEARCH! and READ! I’m on stock studs and plan to stay that way.
19. You might want to consider adding an inline sensor and gage to read/verify ethanol content in your fuel system.
20. Fuel mileage is lousy!!! You may want to experiment with open loop idle and cruse, and try leaning these out some.
Please share additional E85 hints and tips…
Last edited by Jim in Tucson; Jan 22, 2010 at 04:26 PM.
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uneekvisions (Mar 9, 2024)
Jul 16, 2008 | 10:04 AM
#2
Great post! Thank you very much.
Not sure how you want to place it in you recommendations but what about adding an inline sensor and gauge to read/verify ethanol content in the system?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=ethanol+gauge
Matt
Not sure how you want to place it in you recommendations but what about adding an inline sensor and gauge to read/verify ethanol content in the system?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=ethanol+gauge
Matt
Jul 16, 2008 | 10:23 AM
#3
Wow, big list!
RE: #14, my idle is around 900RPM and its fine, but i'm on stock cams whereas you're on aftermarket cams....
You might also want to add: Do not tell any regulatory (DMV) or police agencies that you're running E85 since it is technically not legal to do so per the EPA. Yes E85 spews out less emissions, but as far as i know, the EPA has only certified 1 E85 conversion kit and its not for an Evo :P
Also, might want to consider installing ARP head studs if you plan on running boost +25psi and beyond....
RE: #14, my idle is around 900RPM and its fine, but i'm on stock cams whereas you're on aftermarket cams....
You might also want to add: Do not tell any regulatory (DMV) or police agencies that you're running E85 since it is technically not legal to do so per the EPA. Yes E85 spews out less emissions, but as far as i know, the EPA has only certified 1 E85 conversion kit and its not for an Evo :P
Also, might want to consider installing ARP head studs if you plan on running boost +25psi and beyond....
Last edited by skiracer; Jul 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM.
Jul 16, 2008 | 11:15 AM
#6
if you ran the minimum list for e85 (fp, tune, injectors):
1) What would you you expect for gain in whp on say a IX ?
2) what would you expect for mpg ?
I am looking at this as alternative fuel strategy if the cost savings is there from gas.
Like if e85 was 3 bucks/gallon and and HP was better, if it would be more economical to convert, even with the higher fuel consumption....
1) What would you you expect for gain in whp on say a IX ?
2) what would you expect for mpg ?
I am looking at this as alternative fuel strategy if the cost savings is there from gas.
Like if e85 was 3 bucks/gallon and and HP was better, if it would be more economical to convert, even with the higher fuel consumption....
Jul 16, 2008 | 11:54 AM
#7
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From: Tucson, Arizona, USA
if you ran the minimum list for e85 (fp, tune, injectors):
I have to assume you are referring to a stock EVO IX.
1) What would you you expect for gain in whp on say a IX ?
2) what would you expect for mpg ?
I am looking at this as alternative fuel strategy if the cost savings is there from gas.
Like if e85 was 3 bucks/gallon and and HP was better, if it would be more economical to convert, even with the higher fuel consumption....
I have to assume you are referring to a stock EVO IX.
1) What would you you expect for gain in whp on say a IX ?
2) what would you expect for mpg ?
I am looking at this as alternative fuel strategy if the cost savings is there from gas.
Like if e85 was 3 bucks/gallon and and HP was better, if it would be more economical to convert, even with the higher fuel consumption....
2) What would you expect for mpg? 15mpg
There is no actual cost savings in running E85 over, say, 91. But, of course, that is not an apples to apples comparo either. Ninety-one is , DUH!, 91 octane, and E85 is 105 octane. So, for an accurate comparison, compare E85 to $6-11 per gal for racing fuel of your favorite flavor.
If comparing 105 octane E85 to 105 octane gasoline, even though you will use 25% more E85, the E85 is a substantial savings. At least this is how I explained it to my wife.
In addition, I casually mentioned that I was also reducing my dependence on foreign oil by 85%. She bought that too! 
I must admit the irony of the silver E85 EVO parked next to her silver fuel-miser Prius, is a picture only my demented mind can appreciate.
formerly Jim in Columbus
GO BUCKS!
Last edited by Jim in Tucson; Jul 16, 2008 at 10:31 PM.
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Jul 16, 2008 | 12:59 PM
#8
Sounds more like the spread between e85 and gas will need to increase before I can justify it for a Daily driver. That power number is very nice tho 
I found this site: http://www.e85prices.com/
which has a calculator on it. and it will compare 3.35/gal e85 at 15mpg to 4.25/gal 93 at 24mpg and tell you which is a better deal. for now gas is still more economical for me...
I found this site: http://www.e85prices.com/
which has a calculator on it. and it will compare 3.35/gal e85 at 15mpg to 4.25/gal 93 at 24mpg and tell you which is a better deal. for now gas is still more economical for me...
Jul 16, 2008 | 01:16 PM
#10
That would be +50whp because you are able to increase the boost.....At the same boost level (and some tuning) it would be a much lower increase.
There is no actual cost savings in running E85 over, say, 91. But, of course, that is not an apples to apples comparo either. Ninety-one is , DUH!, 91 octane, and E85 is 105 octane. So, for an accurate comparison, compare E85 to $6-11 per gal for racing fuel of your favorite flavor.
If comparing 105 octane E85 to 105 octane gasoline, even though you will use 25% more E85, the E85 is a substantial savings. At least this is how I explained it to my wife. In addition, I casually mentioned that I was also reducing my dependence on foreign oil by 85%. She bought that too!
If comparing 105 octane E85 to 105 octane gasoline, even though you will use 25% more E85, the E85 is a substantial savings. At least this is how I explained it to my wife. In addition, I casually mentioned that I was also reducing my dependence on foreign oil by 85%. She bought that too!
Let’s say you need to purchase injectors and a tune......(inj. $350? Tune $400?)
I can only use Michigan prices. But we can purchase 94 here for $4.45pg vs. E85 at $3.66 (4.45- 3.66 = $0.79 savings per gallon used)
Now take that $750 you spent to convert and divide it by $0.79 savings
($750.00/0.79 = 949.37 Gallons of gas)
At the e85 average mileage of 15mpg it would take you 14,241 miles of driving before you would actually start to "save money" (15 x 949.37). That does not take into account money spent on more frequent oil changes.
Reducing foreign oil dependency, yes. Supporting the good ole US of A farmers, yes. Reduced emissions.....not really because of the footprint of the e85 refineries compared to the gasoline refineries, but that is another topic.
Overall (in my opinion) the only reason for the switch to E85 is for the ability to make more power......not for the "precieved" savings at the pump
Matt
Last edited by Dropspeed; Jul 16, 2008 at 01:28 PM.
Jul 16, 2008 | 03:28 PM
#11
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Take a look at this: E3 BioFuels. Watch the various videos. This is a revolutionary closed loop system that produces both ethanol AND beef, and is powered by cow sh$t.
This is a win-win solution.
Last edited by Jim in Tucson; Jul 16, 2008 at 10:42 PM.
Jul 16, 2008 | 07:53 PM
#12
http://www.epa.gov/SmartwayLogistics...tsheet-e85.htm
E85 & Conventional Vehicles
Consumers should never use E85 in a conventional, gasoline-only vehicle. This can lead to a range of problems, including not being able to start the engine, damage to engine components, illumination of the check engine light, and emissions increases.
It is technically possible to convert a conventional gasoline vehicle to run on E85; however, such conversions would likely be illegal unless they are certified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). In addition, converting a conventional vehicle to E85 may violate the terms of the vehicle warranty. See more information on the vehicle conversion process (PDF) (22 pp, 152 K, February 2006, About PDF). http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cisd0602.pdf
E85 & Conventional Vehicles
Consumers should never use E85 in a conventional, gasoline-only vehicle. This can lead to a range of problems, including not being able to start the engine, damage to engine components, illumination of the check engine light, and emissions increases.
It is technically possible to convert a conventional gasoline vehicle to run on E85; however, such conversions would likely be illegal unless they are certified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). In addition, converting a conventional vehicle to E85 may violate the terms of the vehicle warranty. See more information on the vehicle conversion process (PDF) (22 pp, 152 K, February 2006, About PDF). http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cisd0602.pdf
Last edited by skiracer; Jul 16, 2008 at 07:58 PM.
Jul 16, 2008 | 08:35 PM
#13
Very nice thread!
I would like to clarify Dropspeed's comment concerning the increase in boost causing more power--obviously with the higher octane fuel you get to run more boost and even more importantly MUCH more timing! Timing is a key ingredient in making power!
I would like to clarify Dropspeed's comment concerning the increase in boost causing more power--obviously with the higher octane fuel you get to run more boost and even more importantly MUCH more timing! Timing is a key ingredient in making power!
