foghat

Hey all,

I currently own a ms3. The car is no longer doing it for me. Just doesn't feel that fast, maybe I've gotten used to it, I dunno. I do know that the narrow power band (fall flat on its face at about 5600rpm) sucks.

Anyways, while there is a reasonable aftermarket for the ms3, I don't want to go there for a number of reasons I'm not going to get into.

Looking at a STI or an Evo X now. The STI has a lot that appeals to me, but with that number 4 piston ringland issue, I'm kinda leary of going the sti route. Maybe it is not a widespread issue, i don't know - seems to depend on if you talk to the fanboi or the poor guy who has had to have an engine replaced.

But I digress, I think the evo x looks great, I love the fact it pulls right through redline and get some serious power for not so many dollars. Really more curiosity than anything, but I'd like to hear from previous ms3 owners - how did you find the transition?

Stock for stock, do you prefer the evo? Pros/cons as to the evo vs. ms3? Any general thoughts and/or comments?

Appreciated.

Thanks.

MrBonus

iTrader: (4)

I owned a Mazdaspeed 3. The Mazdaspeed 3 was more comfortable for long distances, the interior was better, and the interior room was substantially better. Otherwise, brakes, handling, composure, power delivery all favor the X. Performance-wise, the X tears a mud-hole in the MS3.

Laz

I came from a 2008 MS3.

The interior quality is better in the MS3. Features are better in MS3. Seats are more comfortable as well. The interior is simply more visually appealing than the Evo X.

The heavy steering wheel of the MS3 is annoying as hell. The Evo Xs steering wheel is small and light which makes it much more fun to drive.

The clutch on the MS3 is the biggest reason I traded it in. I hate how it's so sensitive and so springy. It's also a damn workout to keep the clutch pedal pushed in for any duration. Family of mine that drove the MS3 that had years of manual experience said they wouldn't buy the MS3 because the clutch was so terribly springy. The Evo X clutch is the complete opposite. It's easy mode, it's smooth, it's perfect. The gears engage very smoothly, without effort unlike the MS3.

The exterior of the Evo X blows away the MS3. Even after driving an MS3 for a year, I still have to double check a Mazda 3 to see if it's an MS3 or not. The Evo X is easy: one glance and you KNOW it's an Evo. The MS3 exterior is just boring as hell. The wheel hop and traction issues in 1st and 2nd are bad. As you may have guessed, the Evo X has no wheel hop or traction issues.

I will say this: through thorough testing I can say with full confidence that the MS3 is just as fast as the Evo X is stock. With a CAI the MS3 will leave a stock Evo X. The Evo X needs a retune so bad it's not even funny. It's rich as hell from the factory and the power flatlines above 5K RPMs. With a retune this is fixed though. It pulls all the way to 7200 RPMs unlike the MS3 which goes to 5700 and dies like you said.

1st gear isn't useless in the Evo X like it is in the MS3. I hated in the MS3 having to shift after going 10 feet. Some people started the MS3 in 2nd gear and I sorta agree with them.

Gas mileage in the Evo X is about 3-4 MPG worse on average. Not a huge deal but definitely worse. A tune helps alleviate this but the MS3 does get better MPG overall.

The MS3 can haul a ****ing door (I can prove that ha ha ha) and the Evo can't haul ****. The Evo's trunk is so small that you will have trouble carrying groceries in it (no joke). The MS3 will take a load of stuff if you put the seats down and I definitely miss that.

The brakes on the MS3 are absolutely better than the Evo X. The MS3 is said to have the brakes of a supercar and I totally agree. Going from the MS3 to the Evo X, I could tell a huge difference in the braking power. The Evo's brakes are still very good, but the MS3's were slightly better.

Handling: MS3 is 9/10, Evo X is 11/10. So you'd be going from good to very very good. Evo X has less body roll and feels like it's glued to the road.

I have the base model GSR and the sound system is still better quality than the MS3. The MS3 sound quality was atrocious. The Evo's was nothing special but it is better than the MS3.

The Evo X has a far better reputation for modding if you ever wanted to get into it. The MS3 can get pretty damn powerful but it hits a brick wall if you get to a certain point. A retune on the Evo X will give it 50-70 horsepower.

The Evo X cruises at 3800-3900 RPMs on the highway which is terrible. The MS3 has it beat here. You can hear the Evo engine over the exhaust on the highway. The MS3 has the low drone, but at least the engine wasn't so damn loud.

The MS3 is a great car and it deserves to win the awards it's getting but in the end the Evo X is simply better. The transmission is what sets it apart for me. The MS3 feels like a struggle to get the clutch on your side while the Evo clutch feels like it's your best friend.

I guess long story short is the exterior styling is better on Evo X, interior styling is better on MS3, power is the same for both (with both at stock), Evo handles better, Evo's tranny is smoother. If you make the trade you won't regret it, but don't expect a torque monster from the Evo X until you get it tuned.

I hope this helps!!!!!

DepoRacing

iTrader: (2)

Its a nice step up from the MS3 in performance. If you drive like a wuss then dont bother, Always shocks me to see a chick in a M3 or 335 just get the 328, you just want the BMW emblem anyway. seriously, K & N and a test pipe you will add 100 hp with a custom tune on a X

foghat

I agree 100%, I've been driving manuals for 20 years and I still have a hard time getting my ms3 to engage smoothly. It is fubar.

Thanks for the detailed response. Most of what you say is about what I thought. I'm not sure if my ms3 is a dud or what, but it really doesn't feel that fast - that said, I've gone against other ms3's through 3rd and it was pretty much dead even. 4th really seems to be a let down in my car - just doesn't seem to move.

The lack of a 6th gear in the evo sucks, as does lack of trunk space, but something I think I can deal with.

I would definitely want to do some minor modding. At the very least a cobb ap and ots map. Likely eventually tbe and custom tune. I just like the fact that the upgrades on the evo work as advertised.

On the ms3, mods are a crap shoot - what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for others. I had a cobb sri on mine - sounded great, gave a bit more power (I didn't notice a big increase as others have), but accelerating in 5th or 6th gear would cause the engine to 'surge' or 'buck' - it was annoying as hell and I ended up taking it off. Put a down pipe on and you may start smoking, the list of possible issues goes on and on. Just not worth in imo.

Right now for me the biggest issue is (as I said earlier) the narrow power band. 3000 - 5600 rpm is not enough room to play.

I likely won't be getting anything until next spring, read on post where the guy said there might be different gearing in 2011 to help with the high highway rpms. We'll see.

foghat

Yes, I very much like the modding potential with this car!

stageup

iTrader: (1)

aw don't tell me there might be 2011 changes in gearing rofl
i just decided to trade my ms3 in and the no 6th gear was
a major hold back point to me, besides the gas mileage and
interior. i still am unsure if i want car payments again

Laz

It's totally worth trading in but I'm serious about the power -- the Evo X doesn't feel any faster than the MS3 until you get it tuned. Once tuned, it's much faster and it feels faster as well. Test drive an X and you'll see what I mean. At least you don't have to worry about spinning in 1st and 2nd though!!!!

userwave

my girlfriend has a 2007 MS3,

the clutch is annoying as hell, but for the money, the MS3 is fantastic bang for the buck,
the car pulls hard at highway speeds, but suffers large from the 2wd torque steer syndrome.

if you get an STi try to find a low mileage 04-05 model,
if you go the EVO X route i'm sure you will be very pleased
I know I am.

solipsism

iTrader: (1)

I had one of the first ms3s in Canada and put ~55000 KM on it, modding after 22000km.

E/T/D: I found gearing to be annoying for acceleration in the city, but it got very good gas mileage on the highway (about 200km more at the same speeds as the evo) due to the 6th gear and tune/DISI. Again, like others said it was more annoying in town having to shift all the time. I actually liked the clutch better on the mazda then the stock evo X clutch. I just didnt like the vague gear shifter and the picky transmission. Stock to stock, because of the gearing it was faster then the Evo at high speeds, could easily keep on with stock STi and never fall behind (again at highway speeds/straightline). Evo can obviously handle the power better.

Handling: Was a rougher ride then stock evo, poor damping, better initial brakes but they faded very fast. Torque steer was a game killer for me, especially with power mods. Was an exercise in frustration driving it spiritedly. The stock ECU limits boost in the first 3 gears based on wheel angle and spin through the Stability Control. Which is fine, but it sucks the power, and when you turn it off you see why its there. (I torque steered it into an adjacent curb causing a LOT of grief)

Comfort/Stock features/etc: Stock Manual leveling HIDS (Canada), Bose stereo (didnt like), Rain Sensing Wipers, Auto Headlights, Way nicer interior then the evo disregarding the Recaros. Better for the highway as far as EVH goes. Hatch is obviously love it or hate it. I brought home a 52" tv in it.

I woudln't go back to the ms3 in terms or performance, but for a DD for a 70km/day commute i would consider it.

foghat

Are you saying you got 200km more to a tank in the ms3!?

That would mean I wouldn't even get 300km in the evo, as I get just under 500km on a tank (taking it right to empty) on my ms3.

To all: so, even if the the 2 cars are fairly even stock for stock in a straight line, what about the 'fun factor' in driving the 2, I would think with the ms3's narrow power band, the evo must be more fun?

Laz

The Evo X is much more fun.

steevo

iTrader: (3)

I've owned a modded Evo VIII for 2 years, now a modded Speed 3 for 2 years, and test drove a stock Evo X for a full 24 hours/130 miles, so I have some input here. Yes, the Evo is and always will be much more fun to drive, even if it's less powerful than a modded MS3. Take it on a twisty backroad, and you will see, or maybe not. It all depends on how you drive.

That's the point. You buy an Evo for performance only IMO. If anything else matters, an Evo might not be for you. On that note, the Evo is the car for me. Gas mileage, interior, blah blah, who cares. It's a performer with an awesome platform to build on, and is very easy to drive aggressively in comparison to other cars.

I love my MS3, don't get me wrong. Great sound, pretty damn quick, and has a "luxurious" interior compared to the X. Lots of fun, love the sleeper look, and all the other stuff already mentioned in this thread. The practical thing would be to keep it. But, work is down the street, and I want to enjoy the rest of my mileage as much as possible. I'd pick an Evo X over the MS3 for that anyday.

Ramen_Noodle

iTrader: (3)

I've had my speed for almost a year now, and I agree on several of the issues that the OP has stated, including some that he hasn't. The power is good enough for me, but after being an EVO owner and an AWD fan boy I just can't bring myself to keep the car for much longer. I've been looking for an Evo X but I'm no convinced it's worth pursuing at this point because of being a tad upside down on the MS3. Oh well, I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

stageup

iTrader: (1)

yea exactly , do i want car payments again for another 3-5 years?
i work 15 miles each way from home so gas mileage isn't a big deal to me.
for sure the evo X was way more fun and felt faster.
the smart thing is to keep my ms3 since it's almost paid off but how often
do i do the smart thing