We have used both systems in many cars. The AEM has more features and is more complicated for most people. The Autronic is simpler and doesn't have 3D maps. The Autronic has great a great base map that will start any EVO and has no cold start issues or idle issues.

The AEM seems to need some good tuning to get the cold start and everything to work well. Overall it is a toss up as both systems work well.

 

Thanks for the replies guy, i'm pretty sure i'm going to go the AEM route.

 

I've got the autronic and I've had no problems. I prefer it over the aem.

Jeb

 

I don't get why everyone is so concerned about knock control.. think about it guys.. its a fully programable ecu. If the ecu is properly tuned for every cell and the correction tables for barometric pressure, intake air temperature, and coolant temp are tuned properly, knock will not be an issue. Some of the best tuners in the world don't even leave oxygen sensor feedback enabled once they are done tuning Knock will only be an issue if the car is not tuned properly or you let your wife/husband/dog take the car to the corner store and put the wrong gas in it. A knock sensor is nice and all, but you have to remember that if its detecting knock, its already happened and could have already caused the damage the knock sensor is designed to prevent. *Shrug* I can't wait for my Autronic..

 

All autronic ecus that I know of do have 3d maps....

 

Real simple. When tuning for the edge on pump gas, you use the knock sensor as your gauge of how well your tuining process is going. Then after the fact you knock sensor protects you in the event of a bad tank of gas. Quality control isn't 100% at ANY gas station and you can always end up with a bad tank of fuel. In that situation I would prefer to have my timing retarded by the AEM rather than have a rod sent through the block by the Autronic

Keith

 

Tuning with a knock sensor is just about the most retarded thing I've ever heard of. Yes I know that it is a common practice, but that doesn't make it right or smart. For the love of god tune on a load bearing dyno to get your timing CORRECT instead of "right before it knocks". If a slightly different tank of fuel is going to throw a rod then perhaps you should rethink your tune for a street car.

 

Obviously, if you can't tune using a knock sensor then it must be the wrong way to tune.

Forgive us for not being as great and powerful as you, mighty and powerful Oz!

Keith

 

Its not that i can't.. its that I won't.. because it is the wrong way to do things. It definitely is the wrong way to be reliable. I have just a little bit of experience seeing as how I both own a performance and fabrication shop and have tuned these cars before. I am also EFI 101 certified and until last week ran the aem on my car. *Shrug* But if you know better, then by all means keep tuning with the knock sensor...

 

My goal and method isn't "tune till it knocks like hell then back off a bit", my method is "tune where experiance tells me power is, and if I get knock back off a few notches".

That works great, but if you run into a friends car that is knock prone (they are out there) and you use your experiance with other cars that are not knock prone to tune it and he is using the autronic he is basicly screwed.

If you own a shop, and have a dyno you can play with all day long somthing like the autronic is just peachy... but what happens when your customer puts in a new cold air intake and the car now runs leaner than it used to?

Keith

 

if you are expecting a knock sensor to overcome a change in your setup, you are putting alot of faith in a microphone that will be picking up alot of random engine noise anyways. The amount of control the ecu would need in that situation would be pointless. Just because the ECU can correct some on its own, doesn't mean you should depend on this correction ever.

 

You just don't get it do you? You talk like you own a shop and tune lots of customer cars. If that is true and you have them all using the autronic, you need to put the fear of God into them so they won't do further mods without your permission and a retune. Otherwise, they are going to blame YOU when they add a cold air intake and test pipe and lean out the A/F ratios to an unacceptable level for the tune you set them up with.

Now, if you don't have a shop and tune lots of customer cars you are just talking out your @ss. Yes tuning for max torque on the dyno is better than tuning by experiance with a knock sensor as backup,.... but unless you are one rich mother f'er comming up with the dyno time to get everything perfect is pretty rare in the aftermarket world. Your system also doesn't allow for a bad tank of gas or the wife (or mom, or other relative/friend) putting in a tankful of 87 on you.

Keith

 

ummm... I want to say that you are not supposed to have a highly tuned car and expect to leave room for errors like letting people putting in a tank of 87 in it. Come on! It is a fully programmable ECU and if it really happens and you hear knocks, please, just pick up your laptop and detune it yourself. If the car owner doesn't know how to do that, he doesn't even desearve to have such a powerful stand alone computer... nor any piggy backs.

I know what you mean when you say how useful knock sensor is. But I realy think knock sensor is just a safty net and it should not be used solely for tuning. Knock sensor gives too much false alarm especially when your engine internal was modified, things like camshafts and running higher rpm create more noise (not to mention ralley course road condition) and they may trigger the knock sensor. That's why many pros tuning their master piece for max power with knock sensor disabled. However, I agree with you that knock sensor is a good idea for a street cars, but I don't believe that it is a must-have. If you tune your car relying on knock sensor, you are better off tune your car with your ears. I truly believe that knock sensor is just a safty net.

 

I'm going to have to agree with you on that. But it is a safety net worth having when you aren't the only one who drives your car, and you do drive it on a daily basis in a constantly changing climate. Yes tuner parameters can almost always take care of the changing climate, but if my fiance accidentally bumps the boost control button while driving my car on pump gas, and all of the sudden the car can run 30psi, this is when I want a knock sensor. I'm not ******* the Autronic, Infact if it weren't for the fact that it doesn't have a knock sensor, and it will only interface with a $1500 wideband, then i'd have one right now. The AEM still doesn't have me convinced either. Untill I can actually sit down and use them, I don't think I will make a decision to buy.

I do appreciate all of the imput

 

With the AEM EMS you adjust the knock sensor to only have an effect on timing/fueling when it hears real knock. Pretty simple procedure, you do a bunch of pulls with boost set to minimum with a conservative fuel curve and ignition curve and see what the knock sensor is reading, then tell the AEM EMS to ignore anything below the sound levels normally made by your engine.

If someone puts 87 in my car, I will notice a lack of power when the AEM EMS pulls timing on me, and if that ever happens I will pull boost down to 12 psi untill that tank of gas is used up.... problem solved! I am much more likely to notice a lack of power than audible knock while driving..... and knock that you can hear over a 3" exhaust system is probably already causing damage before you realize what it is and get off the throttle.

I agree that it is a safety net... my point is that I don't think anyone running a street car that is their daily driver should be running without a safety net.

Keith