Ignition issues
Nov 25, 2003, 12:36 PM
#1
Ignition issues
I have read in one of the other forums people saying that the AEM EMS has some issues with the stock ignition coils causing spikey dyno sheets and short coil life, is this true? If it is a problem, is it a tuning issue or does the EMS itself just not work well with the stock coils? Input from Dave Buschur, or any other tunner selling the EMS would be appreciated 
Keith
Keith
Nov 26, 2003, 12:36 AM
#3
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yeah i am seeing this too
I am definitely having a problem here with the stock ignition. Going to upgrade and see... My tuner's shop is moving this week so I am out of the loop till next week.
Last edited by MMLVMM; Dec 9, 2003 at 12:10 PM.
Nov 26, 2003, 09:49 AM
#4
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What plugs are you using and what are they gapped too?
What air fuel ratio are you running?
I don't have experience with the AEM or this dyno so..., but when I have run into ignition missfiring under high loads in the past, the power output/dyno graph was far more eratic/abrupt compared to what I am seeing here.
This almost looks like the AEM is making adjustments possibly due to the knock correction or possibly eratic boost control?
What do the data logs show?
The stock EVO coils actually have the igniter built into the coil, so an aftermarket ECU cannot put an amplified signal into the coil and burn it out. The problem with the emange happened because with the ignition on and the engine not running they were byassing the igniter all the time. So if you left the ignition on with the engine not running for more than 15 seconds it would burn up the coil. I do not believe any of the other ECU systems have this problem.
What air fuel ratio are you running?
I don't have experience with the AEM or this dyno so..., but when I have run into ignition missfiring under high loads in the past, the power output/dyno graph was far more eratic/abrupt compared to what I am seeing here.
This almost looks like the AEM is making adjustments possibly due to the knock correction or possibly eratic boost control?
What do the data logs show?
The stock EVO coils actually have the igniter built into the coil, so an aftermarket ECU cannot put an amplified signal into the coil and burn it out. The problem with the emange happened because with the ignition on and the engine not running they were byassing the igniter all the time. So if you left the ignition on with the engine not running for more than 15 seconds it would burn up the coil. I do not believe any of the other ECU systems have this problem.
Nov 27, 2003, 07:07 AM
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Interesting... I havent heard of any issues as of yet. Our unit is being installed this week. I am curious to see if we run into any issues with the stock hardware. I dont think Buschur has any either. But i dont know for sure. Try emailing David. Im sure he will get back to you about any concerns.
Nov 28, 2003, 08:26 PM
#6
Originally posted by perfworks
Interesting... I havent heard of any issues as of yet. Our unit is being installed this week. I am curious to see if we run into any issues with the stock hardware. I dont think Buschur has any either. But i dont know for sure. Try emailing David. Im sure he will get back to you about any concerns.
Interesting... I havent heard of any issues as of yet. Our unit is being installed this week. I am curious to see if we run into any issues with the stock hardware. I dont think Buschur has any either. But i dont know for sure. Try emailing David. Im sure he will get back to you about any concerns.
Nothing against Dave, I agree with him about giving tech support for his products but not when bought from someone else. If I go with the EMS I will get it from Dave even though if it cost more than getting in on a group buy....because what you are paying for is the tech support.
Keith
Dec 2, 2003, 10:05 AM
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I had spark blow out on mine as well while it was still running (down for a complete longblock buildup, etc.). I didn't have a great deal of time to tune other than to/from work, but I had no boost control (1.1 bar wastegate pressure) and I was seeing bad blowout at times. I was still a bit rich (at 10:1), but knock correction wasn't what was doing it; I watched all of that and it didn't coincide.
FYI, the AEM can and will burn coils if set up improperly. Don't mess with those coil settings unless you know what you are doing. I had stock plugs, BTW.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
FYI, the AEM can and will burn coils if set up improperly. Don't mess with those coil settings unless you know what you are doing. I had stock plugs, BTW.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
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Dec 2, 2003, 09:48 PM
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spark problems...
The car has been running like crap on boost with the spark problems I mentioned above. I swapped them out for the hks irridiums and same problem.
For the heck of it, i put in brand new ngk ir7a-g's- the factory plug and the difference is simply amazing. The car pulls strong now without the backfiring under boost at 6k. Before with the hks s40's or the burned up stock plugs, I would have major problems at 1 bar -1.3 bar. I turned up the boost with the mbc to 1.7bar and it pulled really really hard with my 94 octane mix and no spark problems were evident. The motor just feels really strong. I turned the boost down to stock and will leave it there till I get my uego replaced or more dyno time.
Funny how something like which spark plug you use can make such a major difference. I gapped .25 btw. I do not know if all of the spark problems are cured but it is a major improvement. I suspect the factory plug is pretty well optimised for this car.
I cannot wait to dial this in at a respectable boost level after the aem ignition goes on monday. Even if the problem is gone, I figure that upgrading the ignition will make more power.
In any case the car pulls much harder now and the idle with dual 272 cams is so good it sounds basically stock! The aem is becoming better than stock in drivability. The cold start enrichment is pretty dialed also. It is also an improvement to use the check engine light as a shift light!
I will post a new dyno sheet next week.
mmlvmm
For the heck of it, i put in brand new ngk ir7a-g's- the factory plug and the difference is simply amazing. The car pulls strong now without the backfiring under boost at 6k. Before with the hks s40's or the burned up stock plugs, I would have major problems at 1 bar -1.3 bar. I turned up the boost with the mbc to 1.7bar and it pulled really really hard with my 94 octane mix and no spark problems were evident. The motor just feels really strong. I turned the boost down to stock and will leave it there till I get my uego replaced or more dyno time.
Funny how something like which spark plug you use can make such a major difference. I gapped .25 btw. I do not know if all of the spark problems are cured but it is a major improvement. I suspect the factory plug is pretty well optimised for this car.
I cannot wait to dial this in at a respectable boost level after the aem ignition goes on monday. Even if the problem is gone, I figure that upgrading the ignition will make more power.
In any case the car pulls much harder now and the idle with dual 272 cams is so good it sounds basically stock! The aem is becoming better than stock in drivability. The cold start enrichment is pretty dialed also. It is also an improvement to use the check engine light as a shift light!
I will post a new dyno sheet next week.
mmlvmm
Last edited by MMLVMM; Dec 2, 2003 at 10:03 PM.
Dec 3, 2003, 05:30 AM
#9
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The only real issue with this setup as it relates to the AEM is that Mitsu's coil dwell is set very high on these coils. The AEM can get unhappy about this. The easiest fix is probably doing a CDI box inline with the EMS. This is a problem specific to Evo's. In fact we've never seen a coil with such a high dwell setting.
Dec 8, 2003, 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Could the isses also be related to the AEM's wasted spark setup? From what I hear, Supra guys have run into this before
Could the isses also be related to the AEM's wasted spark setup? From what I hear, Supra guys have run into this before
Dec 9, 2003, 06:58 AM
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With any wasted spark ignition, it is necessary to have a separate ignition box - MSD, AEM, Autronic, HKS DLI, etc.
Supras always get an HKS DLI along with the AEM EMS, and it works great.
George
Supras always get an HKS DLI along with the AEM EMS, and it works great.
George
