Moved my meth nozzle, car now stumbles at WOT
Nov 13, 2006, 01:32 PM
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Moved my meth nozzle, car now stumbles at WOT
background: got my car road tuned by Chris and Martin from AMS when you guys came down to Stamford, CT, and I had the meth nozzle (15) tapped in my uicp BEFORE the bov. All was well, the car felt incredible, no problems besides the forge rs fluttering like mad. I recently put the APS bov in my car to replace that POS forge RS which I couldnt stand anymore because it fluttered so much. Again, no problems, and the APS bov held boost like a champ and had zero driveability problems. However, since its a 50/50 vent/recirc, and since i had the meth tapped before the bov, I was concerned about venting meth into my engine bay...
present: I moved the meth nozzle AFTER the bov now, right at the throttle body (bought a whole new UICP) and now when i drive at WOT and the meth starts spraying, the car stumbles like a ****, and the BOV starts fluttering like crazy...The best way I can describe what it feels like is when you are at rest and hit the "test" button on the meth control box (I have an SMC kit) and it stumbles the engine because it richens the hell out of it
basically, is there anything I can do to fix this? i assume my tune is a bit out of whack because im running rich as sin a few seconds earlier than i normally would because the meth is further upstream now when it starts spraying because its now right at the throttle body...
would using a smaller jet help this? like a 10 say?
present: I moved the meth nozzle AFTER the bov now, right at the throttle body (bought a whole new UICP) and now when i drive at WOT and the meth starts spraying, the car stumbles like a ****, and the BOV starts fluttering like crazy...The best way I can describe what it feels like is when you are at rest and hit the "test" button on the meth control box (I have an SMC kit) and it stumbles the engine because it richens the hell out of it
basically, is there anything I can do to fix this? i assume my tune is a bit out of whack because im running rich as sin a few seconds earlier than i normally would because the meth is further upstream now when it starts spraying because its now right at the throttle body...
would using a smaller jet help this? like a 10 say?
Nov 13, 2006, 02:01 PM
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15 is WAY too much. I would go to a 10 minimum or a 7. Me personally, I run a 7 along with several others as that is what is recommended by Buschur, Dynoflash, Warrtalon.... and a long list of others.
Originally Posted by saiyanzzrage
background: got my car road tuned by Chris and Martin from AMS when you guys came down to Stamford, CT, and I had the meth nozzle (15) tapped in my uicp BEFORE the bov. All was well, the car felt incredible, no problems besides the forge rs fluttering like mad. I recently put the APS bov in my car to replace that POS forge RS which I couldnt stand anymore because it fluttered so much. Again, no problems, and the APS bov held boost like a champ and had zero driveability problems. However, since its a 50/50 vent/recirc, and since i had the meth tapped before the bov, I was concerned about venting meth into my engine bay...
present: I moved the meth nozzle AFTER the bov now, right at the throttle body (bought a whole new UICP) and now when i drive at WOT and the meth starts spraying, the car stumbles like a ****, and the BOV starts fluttering like crazy...The best way I can describe what it feels like is when you are at rest and hit the "test" button on the meth control box (I have an SMC kit) and it stumbles the engine because it richens the hell out of it
basically, is there anything I can do to fix this? i assume my tune is a bit out of whack because im running rich as sin a few seconds earlier than i normally would because the meth is further upstream now when it starts spraying because its now right at the throttle body...
would using a smaller jet help this? like a 10 say?
present: I moved the meth nozzle AFTER the bov now, right at the throttle body (bought a whole new UICP) and now when i drive at WOT and the meth starts spraying, the car stumbles like a ****, and the BOV starts fluttering like crazy...The best way I can describe what it feels like is when you are at rest and hit the "test" button on the meth control box (I have an SMC kit) and it stumbles the engine because it richens the hell out of it
basically, is there anything I can do to fix this? i assume my tune is a bit out of whack because im running rich as sin a few seconds earlier than i normally would because the meth is further upstream now when it starts spraying because its now right at the throttle body...
would using a smaller jet help this? like a 10 say?
Nov 13, 2006, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by teknishnIX
15 is WAY too much. I would go to a 10 minimum or a 7. Me personally, I run a 7 along with several others as that is what is recommended by Buschur, Dynoflash, Warrtalon.... and a long list of others.
only time its to much is when there is a failure and your AFR sky rockets
Nov 13, 2006, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by teknishnIX
15 is WAY too much. I would go to a 10 minimum or a 7. Me personally, I run a 7 along with several others as that is what is recommended by Buschur, Dynoflash, Warrtalon.... and a long list of others.
any explanations?
Nov 13, 2006, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowCar
only time its to much is when there is a failure and your AFR sky rockets
Nov 13, 2006, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by teknishnIX
I'm just going by what several experts have told me. My buddy that installed my kit is running over 500whp and he said 15 was absolutely way too much on his. I guess its a different strokes for different folks type deal. I have another close friend that went from a 7 to a 10 and didnt gain a single whp. I'm more inclined to listen to Al from Dynoflash personally..... why waste methanol if it isn't necessary.
would that lean me out at all because i am currently tuned for the 15nozzle?
Nov 13, 2006, 04:01 PM
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M15 nozzle is perfectly fine. A LOT of people including myself have made over 500awhp on their cars with this setup and 100% meth for YEARS.
Reason you're having issues with stumbling is because now that you've moved the nozzle closer to the throttle body, the methanol mixture has less time to fully atomize before it's shoved into the cylinders. You need a retune my friend.
Reason you're having issues with stumbling is because now that you've moved the nozzle closer to the throttle body, the methanol mixture has less time to fully atomize before it's shoved into the cylinders. You need a retune my friend.
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Nov 13, 2006, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by inco9nito99
M15 nozzle is perfectly fine. A LOT of people including myself have made over 500awhp on their cars with this setup and 100% meth for YEARS.
Reason you're having issues with stumbling is because now that you've moved the nozzle closer to the throttle body, the methanol mixture has less time to fully atomize before it's shoved into the cylinders. You need a retune my friend.
Reason you're having issues with stumbling is because now that you've moved the nozzle closer to the throttle body, the methanol mixture has less time to fully atomize before it's shoved into the cylinders. You need a retune my friend.
NOW i need to make sure that my APS bov doesnt vent meth into my engine bay...
Last edited by saiyanzzrage; Nov 13, 2006 at 04:16 PM.
Nov 13, 2006, 04:20 PM
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Make sure you use an inline check valve as a fail-safe so that residual methanol left over after spraying isnt forcibly being sucked into the TB. You shouldn't have an issue, only reason *I* personally wouldn't spray before the BOV is because methanol will corrode the BOV over time even with a check-valve -its inevitable.
Nov 13, 2006, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by inco9nito99
Make sure you use an inline check valve as a fail-safe so that residual methanol left over after spraying isnt forcibly being sucked into the TB. You shouldn't have an issue, only reason *I* personally wouldn't spray before the BOV is because methanol will corrode the BOV over time even with a check-valve -its inevitable.
i was thinking just to be absolutely sure its not venting after i put the nozzle back to its original location, ill do a few pulls with a small piece of rag or something like that over the secondary port and see if it is wet...if it is, im venting meth
im pretty sure the air is moving so fast in there that i should be ok...
Nov 13, 2006, 05:16 PM
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+1 on the retune.
Everyone I've talked with says to mount it in front of the tbody as you now have done. I would leave it there and get it retuned.
Everyone I've talked with says to mount it in front of the tbody as you now have done. I would leave it there and get it retuned.
Originally Posted by inco9nito99
M15 nozzle is perfectly fine. A LOT of people including myself have made over 500awhp on their cars with this setup and 100% meth for YEARS.
Reason you're having issues with stumbling is because now that you've moved the nozzle closer to the throttle body, the methanol mixture has less time to fully atomize before it's shoved into the cylinders. You need a retune my friend.
Reason you're having issues with stumbling is because now that you've moved the nozzle closer to the throttle body, the methanol mixture has less time to fully atomize before it's shoved into the cylinders. You need a retune my friend.
Nov 13, 2006, 05:21 PM
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i think its ok where i had it...ideally it should be after the bov, and even more ideal it should be at the throttle body, but i asked Martin from AMS when he tuned my car if it really matters and he said im fine where it is..
my friend who installed the kit for me has it tapped in the same place (before the bov) and was tuned by shiv, who also said it was fine...
only thing with the retune is that AMS is a few thousand miles away from NY lol...
my friend who installed the kit for me has it tapped in the same place (before the bov) and was tuned by shiv, who also said it was fine...
only thing with the retune is that AMS is a few thousand miles away from NY lol...
Nov 13, 2006, 05:49 PM
#13
Sayanrazzee,
Putting a nozzle before a BOV is no brainer ( not trying to insult you, is just a say). The BOV would reroute the alcohol/methanol spraying pattern away from the throtle body thus offering an alternate path(recirculating back to the air intake).
I am curious as who suggested you to put the nozzle before the BOV. 99% of the people install their 4-8" from the Throtle body.
I think you should try a smaller nozzle. Another thing I am thinking is that maybe the nozzle is not spraying in the correct pattern making the mixture un-atomized.
When you press the test button the car stumbles because you are putting a lot of methanol and very low air flow. The mixture even it up once you start reving the engine(much more air flow)
my .2c
Carlos
Putting a nozzle before a BOV is no brainer ( not trying to insult you, is just a say). The BOV would reroute the alcohol/methanol spraying pattern away from the throtle body thus offering an alternate path(recirculating back to the air intake).
I am curious as who suggested you to put the nozzle before the BOV. 99% of the people install their 4-8" from the Throtle body.
I think you should try a smaller nozzle. Another thing I am thinking is that maybe the nozzle is not spraying in the correct pattern making the mixture un-atomized.
When you press the test button the car stumbles because you are putting a lot of methanol and very low air flow. The mixture even it up once you start reving the engine(much more air flow)
my .2c
Carlos
Nov 13, 2006, 06:50 PM
#14
I agree that the current location close to the throttle body is fine; that is where I have mine. The nozzle is a little big for stock turbo I'm assuming, but all that means is you have to pull more fuel out of your tune and hope your meth doesn't stop spraying. I say keep your nozzle where it is and get retuned for the new placement of the meth nozzle. Don't put the nozzle before the BOV for obvious reasons.
Nov 13, 2006, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
Sayanrazzee,
Putting a nozzle before a BOV is no brainer ( not trying to insult you, is just a say). The BOV would reroute the alcohol/methanol spraying pattern away from the throtle body thus offering an alternate path(recirculating back to the air intake).
I am curious as who suggested you to put the nozzle before the BOV. 99% of the people install their 4-8" from the Throtle body.
I think you should try a smaller nozzle. Another thing I am thinking is that maybe the nozzle is not spraying in the correct pattern making the mixture un-atomized.
When you press the test button the car stumbles because you are putting a lot of methanol and very low air flow. The mixture even it up once you start reving the engine(much more air flow)
my .2c
Carlos
Putting a nozzle before a BOV is no brainer ( not trying to insult you, is just a say). The BOV would reroute the alcohol/methanol spraying pattern away from the throtle body thus offering an alternate path(recirculating back to the air intake).
I am curious as who suggested you to put the nozzle before the BOV. 99% of the people install their 4-8" from the Throtle body.
I think you should try a smaller nozzle. Another thing I am thinking is that maybe the nozzle is not spraying in the correct pattern making the mixture un-atomized.
When you press the test button the car stumbles because you are putting a lot of methanol and very low air flow. The mixture even it up once you start reving the engine(much more air flow)
my .2c
Carlos
no offense taken, I obviously want to do whats best for the car
it just sucks that i need to get a retune...I got tuned by AMS, and would like to keep it, but thats obviously out of the question seeing as im in Ny and they are in chi-town...