Wheels & tires weight/size and the effects of performance in 1/4th of mile
#1
Wheels & tires weight/size and the effects of performance in 1/4th of mile
Car Weight 2815 lbs + 150 lb driver = 2965lbs
1/4th 12.14sec@115.54mph
1/8th 7.845sec@91.15mph
60' 1.845
I run those time with some heavy wheels 18x9.5
Wheel weight: 21.2 lbs
Tire weight: 25 lbs
Tire size: 245/40/18
I am thinking on switching to 17x7 wheels
Wheel weight: 14.4 lbs
Tire weight: 18 lbs
Tire size: 215/45/17
Total savings of weight about 58-60 lbs.
I want to know how much quicker and faster my car will be by switching the wheels on the 1/4th? Assuming the same conditions...
Thanks
1/4th 12.14sec@115.54mph
1/8th 7.845sec@91.15mph
60' 1.845
I run those time with some heavy wheels 18x9.5
Wheel weight: 21.2 lbs
Tire weight: 25 lbs
Tire size: 245/40/18
I am thinking on switching to 17x7 wheels
Wheel weight: 14.4 lbs
Tire weight: 18 lbs
Tire size: 215/45/17
Total savings of weight about 58-60 lbs.
I want to know how much quicker and faster my car will be by switching the wheels on the 1/4th? Assuming the same conditions...
Thanks
Last edited by juanmedina; Dec 11, 2009 at 09:26 AM.
#3
All I know is that I am saving 60 lbs of unsprung weight
1 lb of unsprung weight = 4 lbs of sprung weight
60x4 = 240 lbs
So thats again of about .24 tenths
I should gain something from the size also; so I think a total drop of .3-.4 tenths is possible. Which is amazing to me how about my trap speed?
What do you guys think?
I post somewhere else and this is what one guys came out with
You have several factors going on by changing tires and wheels, but saving weight is always a good one.
1rst factor: Weight is directly related (inversely) to acceleration
Force = mass x acceleration
Your total weight = 2915
If you cut weight by 60 lbs that is (2915 - 60) / 2915 * 100 = 97.9% of your original weight
100 - 97.7 = 2.1% decrease in weight which directly relates to a increase of 2.1% in acceleration
This part alone should increase either end velocity by 2% (= 117.8 mph in 1/4mile) or decrease time by 2% (= 11.90s in 1/4 mile). One negative factor to increased speed is increased air resistance, so not all of that 2% can be applied.
factor 2:
Kinetic energy of flywheel = 1/2 mass[mass at a given radius] * Velocity squared
Your tire is in effect a spinning flywheel. It takes energy to spin a flywheel up to speed. By cutting down on tire weight (especially perimeter weight) you decrease the energy needed to spin the tire to the same RPM as a higher weight tire. This energy is quite significant, maybe even more than the loss of mass that increases acceleration directly, from factor 1. If you want tires for racing only, use the lightest tires possible and smallest radius.
factor 3:
You didn't give the actual outside perimeter of your tire dimensions. A smaller tire in diameter also amounts to less travel per revolution of tire. A tire 2 feet in diameter at crown amounts to perimeter of 6.28 feet of travel per revolution. A tire that is 1 foot 10 inches in diameter = 5.76 feet of travel per revolution.
So the smaller the tire diameter the more easily it is accelerated (giving in essence more starting torque or a lower gear ratio) bu the actual travel is smaller than the larger radius. The only way to make up for this is more rpm's.
For example , using tire above, a 2 foot tire turning at 2000 rpm = 12,560 feet per minute or 209 feet per second of travel.
A 1 foot 10 inch tire at 2000 rpm = 192 feet per second
If you use the smaller tire, you have to increase the rpm by this much:
2,000 rpm/ 192 ft/s = X rpm/ 209
x = 2,177 rpm
So to go the same distance in the same amount of time you have to run your motor 177 rpm faster. The good thing though, is it is easier for your engine to go faster, because a smaller radius tire also is a lower gear ratio effect to your engine so the load is much lower and torque and horsepower develop faster.
To sum it up...with the lower flywheel effect and less weight you could easily shave up to a 0.5seconds from your 1/4 mile time and add maybe 3 mph to your top end.
1rst factor: Weight is directly related (inversely) to acceleration
Force = mass x acceleration
Your total weight = 2915
If you cut weight by 60 lbs that is (2915 - 60) / 2915 * 100 = 97.9% of your original weight
100 - 97.7 = 2.1% decrease in weight which directly relates to a increase of 2.1% in acceleration
This part alone should increase either end velocity by 2% (= 117.8 mph in 1/4mile) or decrease time by 2% (= 11.90s in 1/4 mile). One negative factor to increased speed is increased air resistance, so not all of that 2% can be applied.
factor 2:
Kinetic energy of flywheel = 1/2 mass[mass at a given radius] * Velocity squared
Your tire is in effect a spinning flywheel. It takes energy to spin a flywheel up to speed. By cutting down on tire weight (especially perimeter weight) you decrease the energy needed to spin the tire to the same RPM as a higher weight tire. This energy is quite significant, maybe even more than the loss of mass that increases acceleration directly, from factor 1. If you want tires for racing only, use the lightest tires possible and smallest radius.
factor 3:
You didn't give the actual outside perimeter of your tire dimensions. A smaller tire in diameter also amounts to less travel per revolution of tire. A tire 2 feet in diameter at crown amounts to perimeter of 6.28 feet of travel per revolution. A tire that is 1 foot 10 inches in diameter = 5.76 feet of travel per revolution.
So the smaller the tire diameter the more easily it is accelerated (giving in essence more starting torque or a lower gear ratio) bu the actual travel is smaller than the larger radius. The only way to make up for this is more rpm's.
For example , using tire above, a 2 foot tire turning at 2000 rpm = 12,560 feet per minute or 209 feet per second of travel.
A 1 foot 10 inch tire at 2000 rpm = 192 feet per second
If you use the smaller tire, you have to increase the rpm by this much:
2,000 rpm/ 192 ft/s = X rpm/ 209
x = 2,177 rpm
So to go the same distance in the same amount of time you have to run your motor 177 rpm faster. The good thing though, is it is easier for your engine to go faster, because a smaller radius tire also is a lower gear ratio effect to your engine so the load is much lower and torque and horsepower develop faster.
To sum it up...with the lower flywheel effect and less weight you could easily shave up to a 0.5seconds from your 1/4 mile time and add maybe 3 mph to your top end.
#5
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There is too much math involve and I am not smart enough to figure it out
All I know is that I am saving 60 lbs of unsprung weight
1 lb of unsprung weight = 4 lbs of sprung weight
60x4 = 240 lbs
So thats again of about .24 tenths
I should gain something from the size also; so I think a total drop of .3-.4 tenths is possible. Which is amazing to me how about my trap speed?
What do you guys think?
I post somewhere else and this is what one guys came out with
All I know is that I am saving 60 lbs of unsprung weight
1 lb of unsprung weight = 4 lbs of sprung weight
60x4 = 240 lbs
So thats again of about .24 tenths
I should gain something from the size also; so I think a total drop of .3-.4 tenths is possible. Which is amazing to me how about my trap speed?
What do you guys think?
I post somewhere else and this is what one guys came out with
#7
there are many issues here, lower gear ratio-less weight are great, is the contact patch the same, traction is key, then theres the effect on the ecu, car speedo says you are going faster so the tuning map comes in differently, the track or a dyno will tell, the lighter wheels and tires will help handling and braking, todays trend of huge wheels is only bling, usually compromizing performance and costing much more, not to mention the ride qulity of a 35 series rubber band and the chance for damage with little cushion for bad roads
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#8
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I am just wondering what weight mods you have done to reach your 2815 weight i kno there is a big thread that lists the weight of parts i was just wondering what you had done ?
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These calculation only work if you are very concistent with your runs. A better 60' would make more of a difference at this point. I've seen 1.7 60' out of 18" wheels. I don't doubt it's possible to cut a 1.6 with proper set up.
Answer is yes it will help. With a 115 trap, I'd say you have more in it just the way it is.
Answer is yes it will help. With a 115 trap, I'd say you have more in it just the way it is.
#11
thanks, i thought wheel speed figured into the ecu mapping, i am surely going with smaller tires on my doggy 4 cyl colorado truck, how i wish the turbo 4 cyl was available in this small truck
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