BTRTURBOCHARGED

iTrader: (1)

This car is my first manual transmission and I never really considered myself a perfect driver. When I drive from a stop I ease off the clutch, slowly move forward then give it gas. I'm not a noob here, but I am when it comes to a manual, could you please help me out and define some terms for me so I know I'm not driving incorrectly, thanks!

What is heel toe shifting?

What is slipping a clutch and how do I know if i'm doing it?

What is dumping the clutch?

What is dropping the clutch?

What is burning the clutch?

And what is bogging?

Thanks guys, I think this thread might help alot of people

BTRTURBOCHARGED

iTrader: (1)

bueller?

tweakdsm

iTrader: (38)

bump

hotrod2448

Heel toe shifting is when you are downshifting and braking at the same time. You use your foot that is on the brake (without removing it from the brake) to blip the gas to match engine revs for the next lower gear you will be shifting into. So you do not upset the car when you let the clutch out.

Slipping the clutch happens when you give to much gas without the clutch released. You will smell the clutch burning if you slip it bad enough. Which leads to....

Burning clutch, your clutch material is very similar to brake pad material just like if you get your brakes too hot you can smell them and they start to fade same thing for the clutch.

Dumping, dropping, and sidestepping the clutch are the same thing. You don't ease the clutch out. If you are at a stop you dial in a bunch of RPM and just take your foot off the clutch. Not recomended. When you are already moving it is not as bad but you should still take some care as Evo clutches are a little delicate.

Bogging is when you let out to much clutch and don't give it enough gas and the engine... bogs. Feels like it can't get out of it's own way.

blaze_125

iTrader: (8)

http://www.driftsession.com/technique.htm

g6civcx

iTrader: (6)

I really dislike that description of the heel and toe technique.

All heel-toe means is that you simultaneously hit both the brakes and the gas, using the ball of your right foot on the brake and the heel of your right foot on the gas. That's it!

Now when is it useful? It's useful any time you need to use gas and brake at the same time. The rest is up to you.

It's particularly useful when you need to downshift while braking. If you drop the clutch without blipping the gas, the car will jolt, and upset the weight distribution. So when you downshift, blip the gas to bring the engine speed up to the road speed in the gear you selected.

It's also useful when you need to double clutch. When you try to select 1st, and sometimes 2nd, you'll get a God aweful grind if you're not careful. The Evo has triple synchronisers in these gears, but it's good practise to save your synchros. So what you do is you throw it into neutral. Release the clutch. Blip the gas a little bit. The tricky part is to rev it as high as you would be revving if you were in the gear you're trying to get. For example, if you're going 15mph and you need 1st gear, drop it in neutral, pop the clutch, blip it to the RPM that you would be spinning if you were going 15mph in 1st gear.

Then you can select your gear without the crunch. Good way to save your worn out synchros or if your synchros go out during a race.

Kyperion

iTrader: (2)

Generally Hell Toe Shifting in our cars is for downshifting only.

Usually, unless you have really small feet, you use the ball of your foot on the brake, and roll your ankle so that the side of your foot is used to engage the throttle enough to rev match.


In our car, unless the synchros are blown, double clutching will do nothing more than make you slower. If you want to do it is street driving fine, but in a race or autocross environment, double clutching will only serve to increase your times (Slow you down).

g6civcx

iTrader: (6)

Double clutch is done concurrently with braking. So double clutching in itself adds no extra time to your shifts, assuming you can do it quickly enough.

Kyperion

iTrader: (2)

so you are saying;

Engage clutch
shift to enutral
release clutch
engage clutch
rev match
shift into gear
release clutch

will not be slower than:

engage clutch
rev match
shift ot next gear
release clutch

I have been racing for a while and can not think of a scenario when a double clutch will be faster, or as fast, unless it involves blown synchros, or a downshift on a dog box tranny with a large ratio span. That is just MHO.

g6civcx

iTrader: (6)

No, I am saying:

1. Engage brake
2. Disengage clutch
3. Select Neutral
4. Engage clutch
5. Blip throttle
6. Disengage clutch
7. Select gear
8. Blip throttle and engage clutch
9. Disengage brakes and apply throttle

This takes the same amount of time because you are doing this during your braking period. Why don't you understand this?

Also, to disengage the clutch is to step on the clutch pedal, and to engage it you step off the clutch pedal. You also forgot step 5. If you don't blip the throttle, you are not double clutching and it's not worth doing.

Of course if you're not braking and you just have to gear down to accelerate, then you don't have to worry.

This is a basic driving technique that every self-respecting driver should know. I realise that we have not 2 but 3 synchros in the Evo. Check my post above. Nonetheless, this is an important technique that you should at least be familiar with.

That is, until you're lucky enough to get dog gears ;p

Also in your sequence above, you revmatch before you shift into gear. Just to nitpick, you should revmatch and then immediately engage the clutch to save time and so that the revs don't drop.

In practise, however, this all takes place at a fraction of a second, and you won't have time to think.

I'm not trying to start anything. I'm just saying that it's something you should know because it will help you. Whether you choose to apply it or not is your choice.

Kyperion

iTrader: (2)

Sorry
I was typing in a hurry at work, so got hte dis and engage reversed.

I was just saying that on the downshift during severe braking (Autocross 60-70mph decel to 20 for a chicago box) I do not see it as a necessity. I do know what double clutching is and how to do it, I just do not see the need to use the technique, especially if you are rolling down through multiple gears. (i.e. 3rd to 2nd to 1st). I just heel/toe the shifts directly without the double,and have had no problems. As long as you are properly rev matching with the clutch disengaged (Pedal Depressed), then the extra clutching operation should not be necessary.

Like you, I do not want to start a big arguement, as different people approach it differently. I was just answering what experience I have with the car in a season and a half of hard autocrossing. Whichever way you are more comfortable with and works for you, is the way to go.

As far as a dog box. I think Rhys Millen makes one, but I am not sure I could get my wife to swallow that number as something I really need to get for the car. Hell she had a big enough issue with 600 bucks worth of sway bars.

Mxt 1

in theory, yes, double clutching should be just as fast as single. but in reality it's situational. If you start braking from 7000rpm, then you have plenty of time to double clutch and engage the lower gear in the proper torque range. but, let's say you're negotiating a series of hairpins and want to downshift from 5000rpm, unless you have bruce lee's left leg, double clutching will result in engaging the lower gear below torque range.
personally, i enjoy double clutching quite a lot. but i find myself favoring single clutch more especially around my town because of the long series of uphill/downhill turns and short straights.
of course these mili-second differences can all be bypassed if we all cheat and get sequential trannys.

UFO

iTrader: (7)

Does anyone actually use their heel? Maybe I have big feet, or maybe I sit wrong, but I physically can not use my heel to blip the gas so I just use the edge of my foot.

rocketscience

uh-huhhhh... huhh. (Beavis) (just kidding).

Edge of your foot.. whatever works. So long as you can hit all 3 pedals at the same time (left 2 first, then roll on gas).. actually, the way I do it.. I hit the brake first, then the instant I need to downshift, the clutch and gas go at about the same time.

hotrod2448

When else would you heel-toe besides downshifting? If you are using the brake to control the cars attitude in a corner you would just use your left foot on the brake. Other than that I can't think of any reason to be on the gas and the brake at the same time.