Case Study # 123 - Most Powerful Evo IX (so far) - 375 whp ! exhuast, intake & MBC!!
Dec 9, 2005, 07:25 PM
#212
On an Evo in this power range (300-400 whp), how much difference does 30-50 degrees F make in uncorrected dyno numbers? This seems like a simple question that any of the tuners posting in here could make an educated guesstimate about just from first hand experience.
On my personal car, using a Blitz Power Meter as a measuring tool, I see about 30 whp difference between a 30-something degree day and an 80-something degree day.
On my personal car, using a Blitz Power Meter as a measuring tool, I see about 30 whp difference between a 30-something degree day and an 80-something degree day.
Dec 9, 2005, 07:41 PM
#213
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Hmmm. I was pointed to this thread. As all of you know Al and I are great friends and even I don't come into his forums and post much.
Personally, I'd have Shiv's posts deleted and probably have him banned if it were me, Shiv you have no business here.
Anyway. Shiv, you said I have my dyno calibrated just like yours. Uh, not sure how that would be possible as we have two different dyno types. I didn't nor did Mustang Dyno calibrate this dyno to match anything you have. The dyno is calibrated by weighing the rolls, belts, drag of bearings etc. to come up with the actual combined weight of what the car has to spin on the dyno. It wasn't calibrated to match anyone's. The two dynos, yours and mine, may spit out similar numbers (I don't know as I don't watch what you are doing or care to be honest) but my dyno was NOT calibrated to match anything you have.
Also, this entire corrected non corrected, SAE corrected stuff can get pretty hairy. When I had my Dynojet I made it a habit to just keep it set on SAE correction. When messing with it doing this seemed to keep the results from an extremely hot day more on par with what I would expect to see but for some odd reason seemed to make very little difference when it was really cold. I have no reason and don't care to learn why. It is just what I observed when I owned it. I went as far as to actually put the weather station in front of a heater once to see what would happen to the numbers. The changes in power, if I remember correctly were not that drastic.
Al put up what the car made under each correction. The TRUTH is in the conditions the car was in it made 375 whp. The TRUTH is on any particular day a car is going to be faster at the track than on another day. IF you run a car in 60 degree weather it is going to be quicker and faster than on a 100 degree day. In this case, running the car Uncorrected the car made 375 whp, which is what it actually did make. Until you can take the car to the track and run it SAE corrected and slow it down then I see no harm in showing the 375 whp which the car did actually make that day. Especially when the room temp was 60 degrees.
More knowledge. My new AWD Mustang Dyno has a weather station option. When I bought the dyno I chose not to buy it. It's pretty expensive. The MD dyno also gives you the option to input the tempurature, baro and humidity. If you don't check a box saying to use what you manually enter it does no correction. If you do check the box it will use whatever inputs you put in. I bought an aftermarket weather station that is attached to the side of the dyno. I manually enter the conditions in the room. Doing this you see how much of a correction factor the dyno corrects. It is very interesting how far you can move one number around and then another and still end up with a 1.00 correction (which is none).
More on this. We are building another BR350 and another BR330 right now. Two more brand new EVO9's. Now understand, when we get these cars they are BONE STOCK brand new. I am talking less than 10 miles on them. This is the car we build and sell through Medina Mitsubishi. The most power I have seen a new EVO9 make on our dyno is 210 whp.
Yesterday I pulled in a bone stock EVO9, I dyno them before and after the BR package is installed to make sure the buyer gets what we advertise. I manually entered the weather station parameters. If I remember right the dyno room was 30 degrees F. VERY COLD. First pull the car only made 188 whp! Holy crap I thought. I let the car sit and get warmer, double checked my inputs for the weather station. (room temps rise when we dyno from the heat of the car, we dyno with our shop door open) I get back in and run the car for awhile on the rollers. I wanted to get the fluids nice and warm as it was outside where it was -1 degree F and I was thinking it was loosing some power from the gear lubes and such being so thick. I make the second pull and the car makes 196 whp. Hmmm, not a very strong car. One more, same number. I then get out and turn the weather station inputs off, so now the correction factor is 1.00, no correction. I dyno the car again and the numbers are 211 whp. This is where I expected it to be in the first place. Keep in mind the defaults in the dyno are 70 degrees F. 40+ more degrees than it actually was and only worth 15 whp.
It will be interesting to get the car back on the dyno after the modifications. This dyno is a heartbreaker for sure.
BTW, the reason I dyno'd it with the correction on and off was this was the coldest we have run our dyno since we had it and I was concerned how the MD might be correcting, expecially when I saw that sorry 188 whp.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Personally, I'd have Shiv's posts deleted and probably have him banned if it were me, Shiv you have no business here.
Anyway. Shiv, you said I have my dyno calibrated just like yours. Uh, not sure how that would be possible as we have two different dyno types. I didn't nor did Mustang Dyno calibrate this dyno to match anything you have. The dyno is calibrated by weighing the rolls, belts, drag of bearings etc. to come up with the actual combined weight of what the car has to spin on the dyno. It wasn't calibrated to match anyone's. The two dynos, yours and mine, may spit out similar numbers (I don't know as I don't watch what you are doing or care to be honest) but my dyno was NOT calibrated to match anything you have.
Also, this entire corrected non corrected, SAE corrected stuff can get pretty hairy. When I had my Dynojet I made it a habit to just keep it set on SAE correction. When messing with it doing this seemed to keep the results from an extremely hot day more on par with what I would expect to see but for some odd reason seemed to make very little difference when it was really cold. I have no reason and don't care to learn why. It is just what I observed when I owned it. I went as far as to actually put the weather station in front of a heater once to see what would happen to the numbers. The changes in power, if I remember correctly were not that drastic.
Al put up what the car made under each correction. The TRUTH is in the conditions the car was in it made 375 whp. The TRUTH is on any particular day a car is going to be faster at the track than on another day. IF you run a car in 60 degree weather it is going to be quicker and faster than on a 100 degree day. In this case, running the car Uncorrected the car made 375 whp, which is what it actually did make. Until you can take the car to the track and run it SAE corrected and slow it down then I see no harm in showing the 375 whp which the car did actually make that day. Especially when the room temp was 60 degrees.
More knowledge. My new AWD Mustang Dyno has a weather station option. When I bought the dyno I chose not to buy it. It's pretty expensive. The MD dyno also gives you the option to input the tempurature, baro and humidity. If you don't check a box saying to use what you manually enter it does no correction. If you do check the box it will use whatever inputs you put in. I bought an aftermarket weather station that is attached to the side of the dyno. I manually enter the conditions in the room. Doing this you see how much of a correction factor the dyno corrects. It is very interesting how far you can move one number around and then another and still end up with a 1.00 correction (which is none).
More on this. We are building another BR350 and another BR330 right now. Two more brand new EVO9's. Now understand, when we get these cars they are BONE STOCK brand new. I am talking less than 10 miles on them. This is the car we build and sell through Medina Mitsubishi. The most power I have seen a new EVO9 make on our dyno is 210 whp.
Yesterday I pulled in a bone stock EVO9, I dyno them before and after the BR package is installed to make sure the buyer gets what we advertise. I manually entered the weather station parameters. If I remember right the dyno room was 30 degrees F. VERY COLD. First pull the car only made 188 whp! Holy crap I thought. I let the car sit and get warmer, double checked my inputs for the weather station. (room temps rise when we dyno from the heat of the car, we dyno with our shop door open) I get back in and run the car for awhile on the rollers. I wanted to get the fluids nice and warm as it was outside where it was -1 degree F and I was thinking it was loosing some power from the gear lubes and such being so thick. I make the second pull and the car makes 196 whp. Hmmm, not a very strong car. One more, same number. I then get out and turn the weather station inputs off, so now the correction factor is 1.00, no correction. I dyno the car again and the numbers are 211 whp. This is where I expected it to be in the first place. Keep in mind the defaults in the dyno are 70 degrees F. 40+ more degrees than it actually was and only worth 15 whp.
It will be interesting to get the car back on the dyno after the modifications. This dyno is a heartbreaker for sure.
BTW, the reason I dyno'd it with the correction on and off was this was the coldest we have run our dyno since we had it and I was concerned how the MD might be correcting, expecially when I saw that sorry 188 whp.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Can I respond to your post here or do you want to take this to the general forum?
-Shiv
Dec 9, 2005, 08:45 PM
#215
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Can I respond to your post here or do you want to take this to the general forum?
-Shiv
-Shiv
Jusst proves how much of a little girl you are Shiv.
You already came into Al's thread and posting bad stuff about what he supposidely does, so why stop now.
Shiv just says drag racing isnt his cup of tea because his cars run 11's.
I think a shop such as yourself should know better then to come into another shops thread and talk trash.......shame on how low somebody will go to get some business.
Dec 9, 2005, 08:53 PM
#216
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Am I the only one wondering why the hec Al's Evo IX numbers (however corrected, uncorrected, inflated, deflated, manipulated or masturbated) are even worthy of debate. At those temperatures, with frosty air running through the intercooler at 70mph, the car will put down even MORE power. I don't know of any dyno that corrects numbers to compensate for the lack in volume of frosty charged air being pumped into the engine. And no...a big fan or two in front of the car is not the same. I think these numbers on a dyno are an amazing source of motivation to at least track this car or run it down the drag strip a few times. I'm dying to see what the IX traps with just these minimal mods.
Dec 9, 2005, 09:02 PM
#217
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For whatever it's worth Al should be complemented for his willingness to travel day after day to tune our cars. I appreciate his enthusiasm and dedication to showing us what the evos are capable of. Keep up the good work, I enjoy your tune everyday.
Dec 9, 2005, 09:29 PM
#218
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I don't think caling Shiv a little "girl" is helping the conversation or situation, and it certainly doesn't speak or lend credence to your argument Jim_Patterson.
Dec 9, 2005, 09:49 PM
#220
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Great numbers Al!!! I do somewhat see the point Shiv was trying to make though.
This looks like a subject for the "truth squad".
All in all, like others have said the numbers don't mean squat. Bring it to the track, move over, and let me see what I can do with it.
This looks like a subject for the "truth squad".
All in all, like others have said the numbers don't mean squat. Bring it to the track, move over, and let me see what I can do with it.
Dec 9, 2005, 10:10 PM
#221
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Originally Posted by markeddy
I don't think caling Shiv a little "girl" is helping the conversation or situation, and it certainly doesn't speak or lend credence to your argument Jim_Patterson.
Als availability is great.
i didnt have time to read this thread..just got in...but 375 whp with that min of mods? esp. with stock cat...makes ya wonder....
