'07 STI vs '06 Evo IX - Stage II - dyno comparision
Mar 18, 2007, 08:22 PM
#17
the vvt makes for a very potent package compared to the 8...
but i dont want to hog al's thread, again i just wanted to show the curve differences for similar cars on our dyno!
pm me for any insight.
cb
Mar 18, 2007, 09:58 PM
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Coming from four years of being subi owner to now an evo owner, I can say that the 07 STI has made leaps and bounds when comparing it to my 04 STI. With that said though I have yet to see an 07 STI hit the 11 second mark on the stock turbo. I think it will once it is in the right drivers hands, but the subi community is still waiting. The 07 has a upgraded VF43 turbo which is ported larger than the previous VF39 that is in the previous model years. This upgrade was mostly made to help control boost creep. It is still smaller when compared to the stock evo turbo, and still runs out of breath earlier, plus it can't be pushed much more even on race gas. There has supposedly been some head work done on the 07 motor, but this has not been verified to my knowledge. The gearing is a great step up. No more shifting into fifth at the end of the quartermile, but the stock motor can't or shouldn't spin much more past 7300 rpms. That last shift used to kill my times. Even if it does the turbo is done right around 6000 rpms. The evo motor can out spin the STI motor, so the gearing is going to help the STI, but it still won't be enough. What amazes me about the 07 STI is the amount of torque that the stock setup is capable of. I've seen some sick numbers up to around 400 ft. torque at the wheels on the stock turbo on 93 octane, and it has been done more that once. The other significant improvement to the 07 STI is the ecu. It takes to mods a lot better than previous years. There's no doubt the 07 STI would be a blast to own, but I still like me new evo and it was cheaper than a new STI so that was one reason I switched. Both cars are a blast. It will be interesting to see how much of an effect the new gearing has on the 07 STI times.
Mar 18, 2007, 10:01 PM
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the evo ix just seems to take nicely to it. i dont let tunes leave that show more than 1 MAYBE 2 knock counts.
the vvt makes for a very potent package compared to the 8...
but i dont want to hog al's thread, again i just wanted to show the curve differences for similar cars on our dyno!
pm me for any insight.
cb
the vvt makes for a very potent package compared to the 8...
but i dont want to hog al's thread, again i just wanted to show the curve differences for similar cars on our dyno!
pm me for any insight.
cb
Its always nioce to set up a tune to minimize knock counts - but there is more to it than that for street cars. To me the concept is about balance and knowing how the car will react under a lifetime of use and knoiwng where to set the timing and a/f for long term reliability and a good compromise for increased power levels.
I dont tune 25 psi of boost as to ME its too much boost on pump gas - not that you can't get away with it. I however feel that 21 - 22 psi is a safe and rational long term boost level for cars which are on 93 octane and which have to run pump gas (which can vary highly in quality from tank to tank).
I am ultra conservative in these matters - however - customers are free to run the boost levels they desire of course.
Last edited by DynoFlash; Mar 18, 2007 at 10:03 PM.
Mar 19, 2007, 05:13 AM
#22
Just FYI - I dont care how many knock counts a car has when its on a dyno and with one tank of gas
Its always nioce to set up a tune to minimize knock counts - but there is more to it than that for street cars. To me the concept is about balance and knowing how the car will react under a lifetime of use and knoiwng where to set the timing and a/f for long term reliability and a good compromise for increased power levels.
I dont tune 25 psi of boost as to ME its too much boost on pump gas - not that you can't get away with it. I however feel that 21 - 22 psi is a safe and rational long term boost level for cars which are on 93 octane and which have to run pump gas (which can vary highly in quality from tank to tank).
I am ultra conservative in these matters - however - customers are free to run the boost levels they desire of course.
Its always nioce to set up a tune to minimize knock counts - but there is more to it than that for street cars. To me the concept is about balance and knowing how the car will react under a lifetime of use and knoiwng where to set the timing and a/f for long term reliability and a good compromise for increased power levels.
I dont tune 25 psi of boost as to ME its too much boost on pump gas - not that you can't get away with it. I however feel that 21 - 22 psi is a safe and rational long term boost level for cars which are on 93 octane and which have to run pump gas (which can vary highly in quality from tank to tank).
I am ultra conservative in these matters - however - customers are free to run the boost levels they desire of course.
your last line is the same as i feel. We generally run the ix's at 23psi peak on our dyno... but i have seen a deterioration in fuel quality around us lately.... it was nice when we had 94 also!!
The IX seems to be very acceptive of these boost levels with very little mods to optimize flow in and out of the motor... I think what makes the biggest difference is balancing mods, and choosing the right ones.
atleast most of my clients are enough of gear heads to go "ill skip lunch so i can put 93 in, instead of 91" hee he...
im doing some testing shortly on some different exhausts, cams, etc... ill let u know what i find... it's always interesting to see your results.
cb
Mar 19, 2007, 06:42 AM
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Yes, read some of the previous posts....I run 26 psi peak tapering to 19.5 psi at 7K rpm (logged with Zeitronix) with zero knock. There are many others running 25 psi peak. I may turn it down to 24.5 and see if I can get more power by adding timing, but right now it is really smooth.
Mar 19, 2007, 07:22 AM
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Seriously I find this thread misleading, and judging by the responses of others then I am not a lone. I do have some questions, why only 21PSI on the EVO IX? Other have clearly said that the stock IX turbo is capable of much more boost, yet you only run it at 21PSI and that is suppose to be an accurate comparison. Oh you just wanted it to be a safe and conservative tune right? Yet you run 20.5PSI on the STI, which is pretty damn high for a stock turbo STI. I am not saying the STI can't handle it, but I am saying the EVO IX can handle more boost than 21PSI, so sake of comparison let's play fair.
Also what is up with the whp graph for the IX (maybe I am reading it wrong), that is a very interesting curve there, I mean honestly that IX doesn't seem like it is even running well. Usually from what I've seen the power levels out, why is this one pretty much just going vertical to it's max power? I am sorry your thread is just very misleading and while the STI has made some gains, still is not on the same level as a EVO IX.
Also what is up with the whp graph for the IX (maybe I am reading it wrong), that is a very interesting curve there, I mean honestly that IX doesn't seem like it is even running well. Usually from what I've seen the power levels out, why is this one pretty much just going vertical to it's max power? I am sorry your thread is just very misleading and while the STI has made some gains, still is not on the same level as a EVO IX.
Last edited by 3000ways; Mar 19, 2007 at 07:33 AM.
Mar 19, 2007, 07:40 AM
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is Al starting to go to another niche market? the STi? that is why this thread is like comparing apples and oranges? good point on the 21psi vs 20.5 psi
Mar 19, 2007, 07:53 AM
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I mean here is another Buschur Stage II, notice how the curve levels out-
Seeing a IX hitting max power at 7300RPM is pretty interesting, I can't ever remember seeing a curve like that with out a spike or something.
I mean defend Al all you want, but he is posting over at the subaru forum how the STI has the upperhand. Going off of what? This dyno, with what looks like a EVO IX running damn near stock boost and a poor tune. Maybe Al has turned a new leaf, being that I am from southern cal and most of us really don't give a rat *** about Al anyways, you won't see me shedding any tears.
Seeing a IX hitting max power at 7300RPM is pretty interesting, I can't ever remember seeing a curve like that with out a spike or something.
I mean defend Al all you want, but he is posting over at the subaru forum how the STI has the upperhand. Going off of what? This dyno, with what looks like a EVO IX running damn near stock boost and a poor tune. Maybe Al has turned a new leaf, being that I am from southern cal and most of us really don't give a rat *** about Al anyways, you won't see me shedding any tears.
Last edited by 3000ways; Mar 19, 2007 at 07:59 AM.
Mar 19, 2007, 08:07 AM
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I like the STi as it is but comparing it with a handicapped evo is like I said comparing apples and oranges. If this thread is meant to bash the evo then I think it just appropriate that Al be banned for promoting erroneous info. at this point it is too late, he has jumped ship and moving to scooby where the market is