'07 STI vs '06 Evo IX - Stage II - dyno comparision
Mar 19, 2007, 10:44 AM
#46
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My take and I am done with this thread. The 07 STI has made some improvements and is making more power than the previous years. I've done my homework on both of these cars, and with approx. $2,500 worth of mods, what I consider to be average for a bolt on car, the STI can potentially make anywhere from (dynojet) 310-330whp and 380 to 400wtq. Most boost 18 to 18.5PSI tuned, some have pushed 19PSI and 19.5PSI, 20.5PSI is pretty high in my opinion for pump gas. Still the 07 STI is pretty impressive compared to previos years. Of course some will make more and some will make less, but most will fall between this range.
A EVO IX with around $2,500 worth of mods should be capable of 360 to 380whp and 350 to 370wtq (some will make more and some will make less). Most tuned IXs run 22 to 23PSI, some higher. 21 PSI is pretty conservative in my opinion, but it still should outpower a STI. So it all comes down to you, what is more important and impressive to you, having some killer torque, or more power. It's up to you.
A EVO IX with around $2,500 worth of mods should be capable of 360 to 380whp and 350 to 370wtq (some will make more and some will make less). Most tuned IXs run 22 to 23PSI, some higher. 21 PSI is pretty conservative in my opinion, but it still should outpower a STI. So it all comes down to you, what is more important and impressive to you, having some killer torque, or more power. It's up to you.
$1000 Bolt-on 20g
$280 injector/pump upgrade
$650 turboback
$80 GM boost solenoid or Perrin EBCS
$300 Ecutek flash
$150 Big MAF intake
There is your 350-360whp
Hell, why not take the stock STI turbo now uninstalled and sell it along with the TMIC. Now get the FMIC and you now have your 380whp/380wtq. Killer torque and power, and good enough for 11's.
It all depends on how you want to look at money spent, and like someone else mentioned, as long as there are '03+ Cobras and LS1s on the road, there is always a faster bang for the buck. Anyone can take this thread and spin it the way they want. EVOs require LESS physical bolt-ons, but using your $2500 mark, I can do (and have done) a LOT more than your research shows. Same end result as your EVO example, price and power.
Mar 19, 2007, 06:32 PM
#48
Alright. First off there is quite a bit I have to say about all this. Number one is, I'd rather not even discuss Subaru's on this EVO forum. What I am doing with Subaru's now I keep on the Subaru forums.
The comparison is very interesting and makes for good conversation though. This particular comparison has one of the stronger STi's from the weekend against the only EVO9 we did. I apologize to Misha for her car, which was the EVO9. The tune was on the money BUT for sure had we not run into a problem and my poor attitude the car could have made more power. The EVO9 was a BR Stage 1 with a 3" cat, upper i/c pipe, battery kit, MAF pipe/filter, the bad Ebay 02 housing and our lower i/c pipe. The first pull on the car the boost was too low, 19 psi. The second pull I adjusted it and it was too high 24 psi. The third pull it was 22 psi but before the end of the pull the lower i/c pipe came off. I tried to fix it on the dyno but could not because of the lower undertray (f'ing POS undertrays, I HATE THEM) was in the way. I was pissed off trying to fix it there was no way the car was going back on the dyno. I pulled it off, put it on the rack, pulled the undertray and reinstalled it putting the clamps back on the right way. So this particular car would have made a little more power. My estimate is had we just bolted it back down with the pipe fixed it would have made 290 whp/290 ft lbs, which would be EXCELLENT. I looked at the chart that I printed for Al and looking at it the EVO was hitting peak torque very late, my guess is that lower i/c pipe was leaking and we didn't know it, which explains the torque hitting late.
Considering that the 290/290 estimate from the EVO was still lower than the STI made.
We have Stages for the Subaru already. I did them a little different than most other Subi shops. I won't go into too much of it.
Also, EVO's on pump gas we will not tune at 25 psi for a customer. My opinion, that's way to high. We usually hit 22-23 at a max and then let it fall off to 19 psi or so by redline, if not less.
My car is a 2006 Subaru WRX. I have installed our uppipe, 3" turboback (no cat), our cold air intake, reflash (99% of which Al handled) I bought a use STi stock turbo, STi stock topmount. I then ported the stock exhaust manifolds and made a cross overpipe (added less than 5 whp) I also deleted the TGV valves (around 7 whp). The car is hitting 23 psi peak and falls down to 14 psi. My car is making 291 whp and 395 ft lbs of torque. Bottom line on that story is an EVO cannot make that kind of torque at this level of mods. As a matter of fact it's tough to make it at all. The car is light as it is a TR. The car is fast. I am quite certain that on pump gas just the way it sits if I put Kevin or Trent in it the car will run 11's. This car is a FAR cry from the 2003 WRX I bought new a few years ago.
I raced my brother Stage 4 EVO with him running 28 psi of boost on E85 and cleaned his clock. His car now has the Power FC on it and overlaying our dynographs now, he'd probably beat me. His car on the stock EVO8 turbo made 325 whp and 365 ft lbs, on E85 and 28 psi. Remember, that's Stage 4, Race FMIC, 780 cc, 280 HKS cams etc.
The new Subaru's are for real. The WRX cost me $23,300. The Stage 2 kit about $1600, put it on an STi and you don't need to find a turbo/top mount. I bought an Sti turbo/topmount used for $550.
Bottom line is, the Subaru's are no longer easy bait for an EVO.
Tuning a Subaru at 22 psi does not seem to be odd either on pump gas. One of the very well known tuners in the Subaru world uses our dyno every few months. The power he extracts from the cars is very impressive and the boost levels he runs always shocks me.
The comparison is very interesting and makes for good conversation though. This particular comparison has one of the stronger STi's from the weekend against the only EVO9 we did. I apologize to Misha for her car, which was the EVO9. The tune was on the money BUT for sure had we not run into a problem and my poor attitude the car could have made more power. The EVO9 was a BR Stage 1 with a 3" cat, upper i/c pipe, battery kit, MAF pipe/filter, the bad Ebay 02 housing and our lower i/c pipe. The first pull on the car the boost was too low, 19 psi. The second pull I adjusted it and it was too high 24 psi. The third pull it was 22 psi but before the end of the pull the lower i/c pipe came off. I tried to fix it on the dyno but could not because of the lower undertray (f'ing POS undertrays, I HATE THEM) was in the way. I was pissed off trying to fix it there was no way the car was going back on the dyno. I pulled it off, put it on the rack, pulled the undertray and reinstalled it putting the clamps back on the right way. So this particular car would have made a little more power. My estimate is had we just bolted it back down with the pipe fixed it would have made 290 whp/290 ft lbs, which would be EXCELLENT. I looked at the chart that I printed for Al and looking at it the EVO was hitting peak torque very late, my guess is that lower i/c pipe was leaking and we didn't know it, which explains the torque hitting late.
Considering that the 290/290 estimate from the EVO was still lower than the STI made.
We have Stages for the Subaru already. I did them a little different than most other Subi shops. I won't go into too much of it.
Also, EVO's on pump gas we will not tune at 25 psi for a customer. My opinion, that's way to high. We usually hit 22-23 at a max and then let it fall off to 19 psi or so by redline, if not less.
My car is a 2006 Subaru WRX. I have installed our uppipe, 3" turboback (no cat), our cold air intake, reflash (99% of which Al handled) I bought a use STi stock turbo, STi stock topmount. I then ported the stock exhaust manifolds and made a cross overpipe (added less than 5 whp) I also deleted the TGV valves (around 7 whp). The car is hitting 23 psi peak and falls down to 14 psi. My car is making 291 whp and 395 ft lbs of torque. Bottom line on that story is an EVO cannot make that kind of torque at this level of mods. As a matter of fact it's tough to make it at all. The car is light as it is a TR. The car is fast. I am quite certain that on pump gas just the way it sits if I put Kevin or Trent in it the car will run 11's. This car is a FAR cry from the 2003 WRX I bought new a few years ago.
I raced my brother Stage 4 EVO with him running 28 psi of boost on E85 and cleaned his clock. His car now has the Power FC on it and overlaying our dynographs now, he'd probably beat me. His car on the stock EVO8 turbo made 325 whp and 365 ft lbs, on E85 and 28 psi. Remember, that's Stage 4, Race FMIC, 780 cc, 280 HKS cams etc.
The new Subaru's are for real. The WRX cost me $23,300. The Stage 2 kit about $1600, put it on an STi and you don't need to find a turbo/top mount. I bought an Sti turbo/topmount used for $550.
Bottom line is, the Subaru's are no longer easy bait for an EVO.
Tuning a Subaru at 22 psi does not seem to be odd either on pump gas. One of the very well known tuners in the Subaru world uses our dyno every few months. The power he extracts from the cars is very impressive and the boost levels he runs always shocks me.
Mar 19, 2007, 06:41 PM
#49
My main point is to say that the 07 STI is much better than the 04 - 06 versions
Not only is the gearing better but the power is better
Its like the 03 Evo 8 vs a Evo IX - the IX is just a more potent machine
Same with the 07 STI
That is the end of what I am saying
Some of the members here need to get out more often and try and have a life
Thanks
Not only is the gearing better but the power is better
Its like the 03 Evo 8 vs a Evo IX - the IX is just a more potent machine
Same with the 07 STI
That is the end of what I am saying
Some of the members here need to get out more often and try and have a life
Thanks
agree they have improved with each model year.
but the 06 sti (as a car, not just motor) is an improvement over the previous years. I had an 05 before my evo ix (bought the 05 sti, then 05 evo mr which is now the 2.3, and the 05 sti with 35R and built motor was sold)
cb
Mar 19, 2007, 08:07 PM
#52
Evolved Member
iTrader: (42)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: somewhere
Posts: 738
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would love to see that buschur WRX run 11's as is, but we still have yet to see an 07 STI hit 11's. I'm not sure about the new VF43, but the VF39 isn't even capable of running more than 21-22 psi...even on straight race gas. So I really doubt the VF43 has much more in it than that, and certainly not on pump. Come on get real here. I've owned two subarus and have been through two different turbo setups on my STI and I can tell you the biggest thing that limits any tuning with any setup is the quality of the gas.
Mar 20, 2007, 02:03 AM
#54
EvoM Community Team Leader
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: chicago, michigan, arkansas
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
that's just great, a stage I evo vs a stage II 07 sti? how about comparing them stock before the tune and mods-did you guys do it too? 
as you know some of us older gents would like to ours stock until the mod bug bites
Mar 20, 2007, 05:37 AM
#57
the two cars on our dyno are almost identical in stock form, less of an rpm range for the subaru, they dont like to be revved.
now this is with an 06 to 06, i have to dyno an 07 sti, but i have one coming in.
i think the gearing will make a big difference, but i dont think the turbo or head changes will make a "big" difference.
cb
now this is with an 06 to 06, i have to dyno an 07 sti, but i have one coming in.
i think the gearing will make a big difference, but i dont think the turbo or head changes will make a "big" difference.
cb
Mar 20, 2007, 06:29 AM
#58
Evolved Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Diamond Bar, California
Posts: 3,783
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is nothing fishy about Als comparison. Read into as you like. But, If you REALLY did your homework on the STI.... For a shade under $2500:
$1000 Bolt-on 20g
$280 injector/pump upgrade
$650 turboback
$80 GM boost solenoid or Perrin EBCS
$300 Ecutek flash
$150 Big MAF intake
There is your 350-360whp
Hell, why not take the stock STI turbo now uninstalled and sell it along with the TMIC. Now get the FMIC and you now have your 380whp/380wtq. Killer torque and power, and good enough for 11's.
It all depends on how you want to look at money spent, and like someone else mentioned, as long as there are '03+ Cobras and LS1s on the road, there is always a faster bang for the buck. Anyone can take this thread and spin it the way they want. EVOs require LESS physical bolt-ons, but using your $2500 mark, I can do (and have done) a LOT more than your research shows. Same end result as your EVO example, price and power.
$1000 Bolt-on 20g
$280 injector/pump upgrade
$650 turboback
$80 GM boost solenoid or Perrin EBCS
$300 Ecutek flash
$150 Big MAF intake
There is your 350-360whp
Hell, why not take the stock STI turbo now uninstalled and sell it along with the TMIC. Now get the FMIC and you now have your 380whp/380wtq. Killer torque and power, and good enough for 11's.
It all depends on how you want to look at money spent, and like someone else mentioned, as long as there are '03+ Cobras and LS1s on the road, there is always a faster bang for the buck. Anyone can take this thread and spin it the way they want. EVOs require LESS physical bolt-ons, but using your $2500 mark, I can do (and have done) a LOT more than your research shows. Same end result as your EVO example, price and power.
Fisrt off I was doing typical modifications for a STI, you can actually get a TBE for $250 for an EVO IX if you wanted, I got my TBE for $600 to tell you the truth, but most people spend a little more money on their parts. So you can mod your STI cheaper, but you can do the same thing for a EVO. My point is bolt on bolt on STI has never made as much power as a EVO IX and STI has never proven anything, especially not going off of a dyno comparison of a stage 2++ STI against a troubled stage 1 EVO IX. Is the STI making more power than previous years, yes, but still not as much as a EVO IX.
Last edited by 3000ways; Mar 20, 2007 at 06:55 AM.
Mar 20, 2007, 07:29 AM
#59
The VF39, STi turbo, on my car is making 23 psi now peak. It would make more, not sure why you say they won't make over 21-22. Granted they fall off as the RPM goes up but those big torque numbers the Subi's are making is partially due to the 2.5 and the other part is the small turbo making big boost at 2500 rpm.
My WRX, bone stock is rated at 224hp/226 ft lbs. On our dyno it made 190 whp and 224 ft lbs.
A 2006 EVO IX is rated at 286 hp/286 ft lbs. On our dyno they make 210 whp/210 torque stock.
Someone is underrating their cars and it isn't Mitsubishi
Also keep in mind that my WRX has a TINY turbo and TMIC on it. I have not dyno'd a new stock STi but my guess is it will put more power to the wheels stock than the EVO's.
My WRX, bone stock is rated at 224hp/226 ft lbs. On our dyno it made 190 whp and 224 ft lbs.
A 2006 EVO IX is rated at 286 hp/286 ft lbs. On our dyno they make 210 whp/210 torque stock.
Someone is underrating their cars and it isn't Mitsubishi
Also keep in mind that my WRX has a TINY turbo and TMIC on it. I have not dyno'd a new stock STi but my guess is it will put more power to the wheels stock than the EVO's.
Mar 20, 2007, 07:54 AM
#60
Evolved Member
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lawrenceville NJ
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last edited by 4Gsixty3; Mar 20, 2007 at 07:56 AM.