norcalSRTrida

iTrader: (1)

can't figure it out. this just started happening after converting to e85.

AFR's are 11.5-11.8 currently. boost at 21.
timing will hover around 20-23*, then right around 6k or so it plummets to 10* (not an evo..an srt, but this place is the only place i can go and get true no-nonsense knowledge and help..so please excuse me) .
timing maps are set to be 20-23. prior, on vp110 it ran 24* w/o a flinch all the way to 8k, no knock.

the car was ran to emptyyy of the previous 110 before putting 5g of e85 in. once i ran through that tank, i put another 5g of e85 in, so it should be clear of any gasoline.

my car feels very strong.
no hiccups.
no cutting out.
no stutter.
no metal specs (would be signs of detonation) on the plugs.
no ground strap closing (would be signs of pre-ignition).


the car drives as how it should. but my spark plug color is telling me otherwise.
these plugs are brand new. maybe 5miles on em w/ 4 or so WOT pulls.




the stuff rubs right off. ima guess the stuff on my plugs is a biproduct of the massive timing reduction..idk.

lost. anyone have any ideas? tried different settings. torque management and knock tables went from stock to almost shut off, still no difference.

i went from loving the car, to about to pull my hair out.

different application, but still same principles.


ive tried afr's from 10.5 up to 11.8, and tried different ranges of timing. no difference..


i know there's alot of e85 experts in this subforum...any help or suggestions? :/

1outlaw

It may just be the picture, but it looks like the ground strap is colored far beyond the curve. Is this plug one plug colder range like many guys run with E85?

E85 in it's summer version is highly resistant to detonation but still can suffer from pre-ignition. Provided AFR's are in line- there are a lot of guys who run it that even ran 116 before.

andrewzaragoza

iTrader: (6)

are you getting missfires? have you tried decreasing the spark plug gap?

churchja

iTrader: (17)

Take it to GST Motorsports...

magyar86

iTrader: (10)

is it going down to 10* due to knock? Since your table is set 20-23* throughout. If So, how many counts of knock are you getting?

Step colder plugs? Gapped lower?

What kind of fuel system are you on? injectors, pump, stock lines?

Are are the AFRs doing at this 10* section?

e85 tends to be more knock resistant when you run it more on the leaner side. We usually see 12.1-12.3 on my car and thats were it likes to run the most timing with good EGTs.

PeteyTurbo@KHC

iTrader: (1)

What are you using to tune? I have CMR software for predator if you need any help Try leaning out to 12.0-12.3 up top and see if you notice a difference.. How about some specs on your setup?

norcalSRTrida

iTrader: (1)

ill try to reply to everyone's posts because they all ask very good questions. that's why i love this site.


yes, im using a predator...The person tuning it is doing it thru email and CONSTANT datalogs and talks with eachother. He helped engineer the datalogging software for the srt-4 predator and my car ran great prior to the e85 switch.

the e85 im using, is the same e85 GST and FFTEC are running in their shop and customers cars, so i'm not sure if that is the source my problems...but i AM going to try a different station tonite.

Petey, you are more than welcomed to look at a few of my logs if you'd like, as well as my tune. Like i said, my tuner helped create and r&d the software for the srt-4 when he worked there and has done a great job tuning my car for my previous setups, but that doesnt mean maybe we're missing something. Maybe you'd spot something that he missed.

specs:
-built motor from top to bottom.7.2:1 compression pistons dish top. no valve reliefs, resurfaced piston tops, and smoothed dish edges to make it as detonation resistant as possible. crower rods. calico coated clevite bearings, etc etc.
-DCR pro race head w/ spherical combustion chamber modifications w/ a 5layer head gasket
-equal length tubular manifold
-6262 turbo
-crower s3 cams (.465/.445 lift, and 232*/230* duration). They were degreed to -6, +7 via DCR Cam Degree Setting Tool.
- AGP 4.5" FMIC
-70mm TB

basically everything is built and replaced from the longblock, to tranny, to anything performance related..
-

norcalSRTrida

iTrader: (1)

i ran 2-step colder iridiums but they were coated in orange crud. either from my 110 leaded that i ran month ago, or from the e85 cleansing out the lead...so i bought new stock heat range copper plugs so it could help me diagnose the car easier.

the pic is of the stock heat range.

norcalSRTrida

iTrader: (1)

it's showing knock...but...

no misfiring
no stuttering
no hesitations
no ground strap closing (that would be signs of pre-ign)
no metal specs (that would be signs of det).
only issues im seeing is the thick yellow/white stuff on my plugs (guessing from massive timing reduction) and the knock/timing reduction w/ no cause or reason.

the car runs solid. it just has a timing wall its hitting.

plug gap was at .026 when i was on race gas w/ no blow out. i went to e85 w/ .026 w/ no blow out, but w/ the new plugs i put them at .028

for our car, big turbo/hp guys run .026-.030 gap for reference on gasoline.

norcalSRTrida

iTrader: (1)

fuel system:
homemade twin 255 pump parallel setup
-8 to the rail using jegs push-loc
-4 to the tank (iknow, i needa go bigger return)
1680cc bosch injectors




timing will hover around 20*, and 0-2KR. right around 6k rpm range, it drops to 10-12*, and ill have 3-5* KR. cant feel the knock, and no signs of it on my plugs.

AFR's at the timing reduction is still in mid to high 11s...right around 11.6-11.8 in the top end.

thannk you for asking good questions.
i am going to try to lean it out to 12.0-12.2...ive NEVER tuned my car to that lean of an AFR in my 6yrs of ownership, regardless of when it was on 110 and meth or not...but seems like leaner is better on e85 from what i read on here in terms of killing knock.

getting new gas tonite, and going to lean it out.






to the person telling me to go to GST...bryan has helped me a bit on a local forum we are both on and gave some very good suggestions. as for tuning if that's what you mean...he doesnt have the software so he couldnt check out my tune if he wanted.
i dont think tuner is to blame either. he has tuned my car for quite some time, and we didnt have any issues until we converted.

lan_evo_mr9

iTrader: (10)

Lean it out and try to lower the timing a tad maybe. Good luck, hope ya get it figured out.

PeteyTurbo@KHC

iTrader: (1)

No prob dude I will take a look.. Send them to peteyturbo@krazyhousecustoms.com
The car sounds like a real mongster

leecavturbo

heard lots of reports of knock with afr's around typical pump figures.
you need to go against the grain and lean it out your timing numbers should definately not be any lower than for pump if they are then you a mile away from mbt.

mrfred

iTrader: (50)

Definitely try leaning out to 12-12.3:1. I would get mild knock even with 11.8:1 AFR on my Evo. Also, keep in mind that E85 does not necessarily take as much timing as gasoline. I hope you guys are calculating whp/wtq from your logs to assess whether you've gone past MBT.

leecavturbo

fred do you mean timing numbers at peak torque may be comparable to pump but then when its going a fair amount of timing can be added?