Injector scaling and latecy for different injectors.
Apr 4, 2007 | 10:21 PM
#106
Apr 5, 2007 | 02:55 PM
#107
MalibuJack - how does the car idle with 1000cc injectors.
I am maxing out my stock injectors right now and I am looking to get a new set. I am still on stock turbo and I know that 1000cc are overkill but I figure I can buy these now and then if I upgrade my turbo in the future I wont need to get new injectors.
Thoughts?
I am maxing out my stock injectors right now and I am looking to get a new set. I am still on stock turbo and I know that 1000cc are overkill but I figure I can buy these now and then if I upgrade my turbo in the future I wont need to get new injectors.
Thoughts?
Apr 7, 2007 | 07:15 AM
#109
Sure, the car idles like stock, pulls hard, doesn't have any drivability issues at all.
I am running a GT35r, 1000cc injectors, and HKS280 cams.. The Three items thought to be the most difficult to set up on a stock ECU. My car is HIGHLY modified, the types of modifications that most tuners would generally toss a stock ECU and install a standalone. But not only does my car run right, make power, it also passes an inspection in my state (NY/Suffolk county) without playing any sort of games. It has a catalytic converter, and doesn't have any failed or incomplete tests. Understand that I do have access to the things needed to fool sensors and force tests to be disabled or complete regardles, yet its not necessary. The rom itself is 100% stock, just the mapping has been altered.
I wish a few people who have ridden in my car could chime in on it.
http://www.aktivematrix.com/UTEC/mal...gt35r-divx.avi
This is a video of the car idling with its current configuration. It has no problem idling, doesn't stall, doesn't stumble or have trouble with fuel trims.
I do run a blowthrough MAF, which does seem to help idle a bit, however I have swapped a stock MAF back onto the car and it does still idle smoothly.
I am running a GT35r, 1000cc injectors, and HKS280 cams.. The Three items thought to be the most difficult to set up on a stock ECU. My car is HIGHLY modified, the types of modifications that most tuners would generally toss a stock ECU and install a standalone. But not only does my car run right, make power, it also passes an inspection in my state (NY/Suffolk county) without playing any sort of games. It has a catalytic converter, and doesn't have any failed or incomplete tests. Understand that I do have access to the things needed to fool sensors and force tests to be disabled or complete regardles, yet its not necessary. The rom itself is 100% stock, just the mapping has been altered.
I wish a few people who have ridden in my car could chime in on it.
http://www.aktivematrix.com/UTEC/mal...gt35r-divx.avi
This is a video of the car idling with its current configuration. It has no problem idling, doesn't stall, doesn't stumble or have trouble with fuel trims.
I do run a blowthrough MAF, which does seem to help idle a bit, however I have swapped a stock MAF back onto the car and it does still idle smoothly.
Last edited by MalibuJack; Apr 7, 2007 at 07:17 AM.
Apr 7, 2007 | 07:24 AM
#110
im having good luck with our 850's on our 2.3 (stock cams right now)...
but im actually scaled to 813cc with the following latency values... fuel trims are well within check now...
3.624
1.992
1.344
0.984
0.768
0.576
0.456
im going 1000's shortly and GSC custom grind cams
cb
but im actually scaled to 813cc with the following latency values... fuel trims are well within check now...
3.624
1.992
1.344
0.984
0.768
0.576
0.456
im going 1000's shortly and GSC custom grind cams
cb
Last edited by CBRD; Apr 7, 2007 at 07:32 AM.
Apr 7, 2007 | 10:49 AM
#111
AS you can see, there are more ways to do this than just putting in fixed numbers.
With the values available to you, plus a newly found base latency value, you can scale for nearly any size injector. But it is trial and error.
The settings I used, worked the best with idle and cruise with my blowthrough MAF (Remember the curve is slightly different than a stock MAF)
There is no "right way" to do this, just trial and error, the settings provided are really just guidelines as every car is a little different when it comes to being modified.
With the values available to you, plus a newly found base latency value, you can scale for nearly any size injector. But it is trial and error.
The settings I used, worked the best with idle and cruise with my blowthrough MAF (Remember the curve is slightly different than a stock MAF)
There is no "right way" to do this, just trial and error, the settings provided are really just guidelines as every car is a little different when it comes to being modified.
Apr 7, 2007 | 01:56 PM
#112
AS you can see, there are more ways to do this than just putting in fixed numbers.
With the values available to you, plus a newly found base latency value, you can scale for nearly any size injector. But it is trial and error.
The settings I used, worked the best with idle and cruise with my blowthrough MAF (Remember the curve is slightly different than a stock MAF)
There is no "right way" to do this, just trial and error, the settings provided are really just guidelines as every car is a little different when it comes to being modified.
With the values available to you, plus a newly found base latency value, you can scale for nearly any size injector. But it is trial and error.
The settings I used, worked the best with idle and cruise with my blowthrough MAF (Remember the curve is slightly different than a stock MAF)
There is no "right way" to do this, just trial and error, the settings provided are really just guidelines as every car is a little different when it comes to being modified.
I have a set of AMS 1000CC injectors in my car right now, scaled with the Latency and values that you got for you BR 1000 CC injectors scaled to about 735 right now, but there a far cry from what your using, HOWEVER im still running a stock ish fuel map. Which to my knowlegde is the Same PTE injectors and the AMS ones im using ( Right)? and im still having trouble with my cams, However they are set to 0,0 on the intake and Exhaust.
what am i Missing here.
Apr 9, 2007 | 09:06 PM
#115
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: CA
Hi guys!
Do you have problem with cold start at all after replace injectors? my car idle and run normal but sometime I have to crank a few time to start it. My fuel trim are pretty good. I used scan tech software from MJ website. I wonder if this is common things for after market injectors.
LTFT = ~ +-3
STFT = ~ (idle) +- 0.78
STFT = ~ (cruise) +- 3
Do you have problem with cold start at all after replace injectors? my car idle and run normal but sometime I have to crank a few time to start it. My fuel trim are pretty good. I used scan tech software from MJ website. I wonder if this is common things for after market injectors.
LTFT = ~ +-3
STFT = ~ (idle) +- 0.78
STFT = ~ (cruise) +- 3
Apr 10, 2007 | 05:58 AM
#116
Its not a very common problem, but if you can get mitsulogger/evoscan to connect while cranking the engine (turn the key to start, start the logger, then crank) you'll notice the battery voltage is probably lower than the two commonly adjusted values.
If it is, then you either have to scale your injectors a bit smaller, and readjust your trims again, or increase the injector voltage latency for the two lower voltage latency values.
The lower the voltage the slower the injectors react.
My car cranks and starts on the first try in under a second as long as the battery isn't weak from sitting, and does it the same as stock, HENCE the reason I used the settings I did, and didn't scale them larger, I scaled them until I the most stock like manners. Then I altered the latency to get all of my trims in check. The closer you get to stock "drivability" and trims, the closer the stock fuel maps will run as stock (unmodified). My goal was to take the stock fuel maps, look at the AFR values, then adjust the scaling until my wideband read fairly close to the values you see in your maps. This does two thins, first it doesn't foul up the drivability of the stock car, second, it allows you to tune the car alot faster if the values closely match the actual AFR. Additionally it really does drive more stock when you get it right.
If you are having trouble with stumbling while the car is still cool, but the car has not gone into closed loop, then you have to make some minor adjustments to the fuel maps.
If it is, then you either have to scale your injectors a bit smaller, and readjust your trims again, or increase the injector voltage latency for the two lower voltage latency values.
The lower the voltage the slower the injectors react.
My car cranks and starts on the first try in under a second as long as the battery isn't weak from sitting, and does it the same as stock, HENCE the reason I used the settings I did, and didn't scale them larger, I scaled them until I the most stock like manners. Then I altered the latency to get all of my trims in check. The closer you get to stock "drivability" and trims, the closer the stock fuel maps will run as stock (unmodified). My goal was to take the stock fuel maps, look at the AFR values, then adjust the scaling until my wideband read fairly close to the values you see in your maps. This does two thins, first it doesn't foul up the drivability of the stock car, second, it allows you to tune the car alot faster if the values closely match the actual AFR. Additionally it really does drive more stock when you get it right.
If you are having trouble with stumbling while the car is still cool, but the car has not gone into closed loop, then you have to make some minor adjustments to the fuel maps.
Apr 10, 2007 | 03:40 PM
#117
Question.
Has anyone altered the voltage range to better affect deadtime adjustment? I mean rather than using 2 values (11.72 and 14.06) why not take out one of the real low voltage (I am assuming the 4.69v doesnt really need to be there) and scale in an adjustment value of lets say 12.7 or something. Is this worthwhile or a waste of time? Or is it something that is being done that I missed in this thread?
Has anyone altered the voltage range to better affect deadtime adjustment? I mean rather than using 2 values (11.72 and 14.06) why not take out one of the real low voltage (I am assuming the 4.69v doesnt really need to be there) and scale in an adjustment value of lets say 12.7 or something. Is this worthwhile or a waste of time? Or is it something that is being done that I missed in this thread?
Apr 10, 2007 | 06:00 PM
#118
I have not read the whole thread but...
If you edit "evo9base" xml file and change the value under "injector scaling", max value is set to "1000", if this value is increased to "1300" would that not allow to tune for the 1000cc injectors better?
Can some one please test and confirm?
If you edit "evo9base" xml file and change the value under "injector scaling", max value is set to "1000", if this value is increased to "1300" would that not allow to tune for the 1000cc injectors better?
Can some one please test and confirm?
Last edited by Oracle1; Apr 10, 2007 at 06:02 PM.
Apr 10, 2007 | 06:25 PM
#119
Max value is just how the scaling works.. The value is still a hex digit from 00 to FF (0 to 255)
You can SUCESSFULLY Scale for nearly any size injector, there's the voltage latency, base latency (a new value found recently) and Scale value..
In reality, huge injectors are difficult to get to idle and maintain very low duty cycles, this is due to the fact that once your at 1% or less duty cycle, there isn't much lower you can go.
Some guys are using stock primary injectors with 1000cc secondary injectors in a secondary fuel rail. Only this is something I've only seen on standalones, even though there are several injector driver boxes you can get to control the second bank of injectors.
1000cc is probably the largest size I've been able to maintain really good drivability with.. Everything larger has been a bit marginal, but the truth is you can get it to run a bit rich at idle and their fine. It has alot to do with the AFR targets and fuel trims at that point.
You can SUCESSFULLY Scale for nearly any size injector, there's the voltage latency, base latency (a new value found recently) and Scale value..
In reality, huge injectors are difficult to get to idle and maintain very low duty cycles, this is due to the fact that once your at 1% or less duty cycle, there isn't much lower you can go.
Some guys are using stock primary injectors with 1000cc secondary injectors in a secondary fuel rail. Only this is something I've only seen on standalones, even though there are several injector driver boxes you can get to control the second bank of injectors.
1000cc is probably the largest size I've been able to maintain really good drivability with.. Everything larger has been a bit marginal, but the truth is you can get it to run a bit rich at idle and their fine. It has alot to do with the AFR targets and fuel trims at that point.