MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

It might hurt the "through the mail universal base map" flashing, but not hurt the income of an experienced tuner who can create a usable map for a person's specific mods. Whether its custom on a dyno, or "experience" mapping through e-mail.

It just raises the bar a little. universal base maps have very little real value, this just puts a true value on those base maps.

almost anyone can make minor changes to a map and gain power, just eliminating fuel cut, eliminating boost taper and the boost control maps, altering rev limit and launch RPM, and making some very minor changes to the fuel and timing can gain over 30whp..

sandm

iTrader: (11)

there are some good points in this thread. so much to look at as far as who owns what. would be interesting to know, such as if I create a spreadsheet at work, I believe the company owns the rights to it, as I am the employee. what happens with some of the "employees" of some of the tuner shops and who owns the rights to that tune, such as if a buschur employee tunes a car. does dave, the customer or the 'tuner', who is acting on behalf of the tuning shop, own the rights?

I, personally would not have any issue with someone looking at my tune from al in my ecu, but would NEVER let anyone use it in their own car. even though it is just a base ttm flash, I would assume that al, since he asked for a mods list, put some thought into the values in the map and might not work for someone elses car, not to mention that I spent hard-earned money to buy it, and others should have to do the same.

cpoevo

iTrader: (1)

Hey Al I was not refering to you. I used tuner X instead of using tuner A so people would not automatically think I was refering to you. I am not accusing any tuner of scrambling ROM's. I was just making an example and not naming any names.
I was just stating my opinion and not bashing or accusing anyone of anything.
Personally I have downloaded some modified ROMs and looked at them to see how different they are from the stock ROM. I will never load a ROM from some one elses car into mine. I also do not give out ROMs for people to load into their own car. Doing either of these things is stupid and irresponsible.
I personally would not have Al tune my car because he does not come to SoCal often enough. I dont quite agree with some of the ROMs that other people have posted. Al makes great power and is a good tuner no questions about it. I cannot even come close to tuning my car as good as Al, but I am gonna tune it myself and hopefully make pretty good power.

cky_bam_marg

iTrader: (3)

wow i didnt know this type of thing was going on. thats so crazy and can lead to a whole slew of legal type of drama for both tuner and consumer wow cant we just embrace new technology without having to find some negative in it?

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

^^ LOL. That only works if there's no money involved and even then only if everyone parks their ego.

l8r)

justchil

iTrader: (44)

Yeah.. and the fact that a lot of us are figuring out it's really not hard to do your own custom tune job is cutting into the profit of those who make a living from it.

TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

Trust me, no one is making a living off of $50 eflashes.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

I honestly doubt there would be any legal drama.. The end user pretty much has to accept responsibility for damages to his own car if he lets someone reflash it because of the tuner agreements that might exist.. But I doubt there would be any way to recoup damages anyway on either side. There isn't enough evidence from the tuners standpoint to clearly show that a particular tune that gets distributed is even his (without signing it somewhere) as tuning is a methodology, and some people do indeed use similar methods to come up with maps. Plus they aren't doing anything unique enough to warrant any valid claim of intellectual property. Tuners are consultants for hire, therefore their work ends up being the person who contracts the work anyway.. Whether or not it can be legally argued really depends on the lawyer and what laws they choose to interpret. This also means that all parties involved (including the lawyers and judge) would have to be able to understand what it is the argument is claiming otherwise they could set a precident that can hurt people involved in other industries who do similar types of work if interpretted similarly.

Ultimately nobody has a case for anything except for Mitsubishi, and its unlikely mitsubishi would expend the effort to settle this stuff simply because the technology ultimately helps them, it allows them to void warranties (saves them money) and people buy more parts and cars since their known to be "Tweak-able"

This portion of the entire discussion is off-topic for the thread, but I brought it up simply because most people don't realize that there COULD be legal repercussions. It may not necessarily result in fines or damages, but it could result in costing money to defend a case if they choose to go that far. In most cases intimidation is enough for people just to pay whatever damages are asked and it never goes to court. I just don't play that game and will fight back as viciously as I'm attacked.

rraulston

iTrader: (2)

Right, but isnt there supposed to be a value next to it???? Mine is blank???just curious.... Ray