What parameters do you log and why?
#16
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The ECU has no true MAP sensor, Boost levels in the ECU are estimated corrections, in reality, engines run on Airflow and volumetric efficiency, so LOAD is a more critical and useful value than Boost.
21psi of boost at lower RPM and peak torque fills the cylinder more than the same exact level of boost at higher RPM, hence volumetric efficiency goes down, as does Load.. Why? Because there is less time to fill the cylinders, among other variables such as Cam overlap, intake port size, restrictions, etc..
Just so you guys know, our cars have MDP sensors, they are basically 1 bar sensors which do not read anything over a few PSI above sea level. This sensor is used only for some EGR and Emission purpose, and we think also to determine the base altitude for air density calculations. And Even at that, I don't know to what extent it really is used anyway.
21psi of boost at lower RPM and peak torque fills the cylinder more than the same exact level of boost at higher RPM, hence volumetric efficiency goes down, as does Load.. Why? Because there is less time to fill the cylinders, among other variables such as Cam overlap, intake port size, restrictions, etc..
Just so you guys know, our cars have MDP sensors, they are basically 1 bar sensors which do not read anything over a few PSI above sea level. This sensor is used only for some EGR and Emission purpose, and we think also to determine the base altitude for air density calculations. And Even at that, I don't know to what extent it really is used anyway.
Anyway, so from what I see (and being an LC-1 owner) the cheapest way for me to log boost is with an SSI-4 ($129) and a GM 3-bar MAP sensor ($100?).
Or I could try and evaluate LOAD vs rpm to determine which part is helping me or hindering me? My goal with purchasing some of this DL stuff (tactrix cable and LC-1) was not so much for tuning on my own, but to evaluate different parts to see their effects on low end turbo performance (rpm when spooling, how does pressure build, etc). Is there another way to evaluate this with the current parameters I can log from Logworks/Mitsulogger/Evoscan using the Tactrix cable?
Any input is appreciated.
John
#18
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Remember, the pressure from the MDP sensor is PSIa (or 1 Bar) its about 16psi absolute, 14.7psi absolute is sea level.. IN other words, it only reads from a vacuum (-30 in/hg or so) to about 4-5psi over sea level.. In reality this would cover anywhere the car would operate..
The Zeitronix (and its boost sensor), or LC-1 (with SSI-4 and 3 bar sensor) are probably the two best ways to log the data inexpensively. You could use an ECU+ with a GM sensor, or a UTEC or Tuner Pro also, but their more expensive options.
Load is a good way to determine how well the car is running as you will see the affect of additional boost on the car's Volumetric efficiency, MAF Frequency is another way you can see how well the turbo spools (although this is affected by changes in intake tract that can affect the sensor)
I understand your point, and if your trying to determine the efficiency of your setup and how it affects boost levels and the spool of the turbo, then you end up needing a bit of additional instrumentation. But its not required for tuning as tuning is really about making adjustments to create the best (reasonable) power for what is already there, and not delta comparisons. Although Load should give you most of what you need.
The Zeitronix (and its boost sensor), or LC-1 (with SSI-4 and 3 bar sensor) are probably the two best ways to log the data inexpensively. You could use an ECU+ with a GM sensor, or a UTEC or Tuner Pro also, but their more expensive options.
Load is a good way to determine how well the car is running as you will see the affect of additional boost on the car's Volumetric efficiency, MAF Frequency is another way you can see how well the turbo spools (although this is affected by changes in intake tract that can affect the sensor)
I understand your point, and if your trying to determine the efficiency of your setup and how it affects boost levels and the spool of the turbo, then you end up needing a bit of additional instrumentation. But its not required for tuning as tuning is really about making adjustments to create the best (reasonable) power for what is already there, and not delta comparisons. Although Load should give you most of what you need.
#19
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FWIW our calculated load is really only a guestimate, and its only as accurate as the data its given.. The closer to stock the values are, the less of an issue this is, I know on my setup my load is thrown off about 20% because of the Injector scale and latency values I had to use in my calculations, if I interpolated the voltage latency a little, they would be a bit closer.
#20
-jjf
#21
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I have the SSi4 and GM 3.3 bar map sensor. This little sensor is about the size of a quarter, so you can hide it just about anywhere.
I bought my SSi-4 from a vendor on her (primo8998). If I recall the SSi4 was 119 shipped.
For the 3.3 bar, go to gmpartsdirect dot com:
GM 3.3-bar map sensor
9373269
wiring harness
88987997
The sensor is about $50 and the wiring harness is about $20.
Eric
#23
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I have the SSi4 and GM 3.3 bar map sensor. This little sensor is about the size of a quarter, so you can hide it just about anywhere.
I bought my SSi-4 from a vendor on her (primo8998). If I recall the SSi4 was 119 shipped.
For the 3.3 bar, go to gmpartsdirect dot com:
GM 3.3-bar map sensor
9373269
wiring harness
88987997
The sensor is about $50 and the wiring harness is about $20.
Eric
I bought my SSi-4 from a vendor on her (primo8998). If I recall the SSi4 was 119 shipped.
For the 3.3 bar, go to gmpartsdirect dot com:
GM 3.3-bar map sensor
9373269
wiring harness
88987997
The sensor is about $50 and the wiring harness is about $20.
Eric
How did you calibrate the GM bar Sensor. I followed the info in the link in my signature, but I do not know if the sources (WBC and PLX) are accurate or not.
PLX
http://www.plxdevices.com/AppNotes/PLXApp013.pdf
WBC
http://www.widebandcommander.com/downloads.htm
http://www.widebandcommander.com/techtips.htm
#24
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To my knowledge, there is no sensor calibration needed. The important thing when using a map sensor is to make sure where your connection for 5V and ground is taken, so that your readings are accurate for reference to the sensor.
I'm going off of memory here, but I believe the SSi-4 takes into account any changes in grounding if the external sensor is hooked up properly.
Eric
I'm going off of memory here, but I believe the SSi-4 takes into account any changes in grounding if the external sensor is hooked up properly.
Eric
Last edited by l2r99gst; Feb 2, 2007 at 09:00 AM.
#25
To my knowledge, there is no sensor calibration needed. The important thing when using a map sensor is to make sure where your connection for 5V and ground is taken, so that your readings are accurate for reference to the sensor.
I'm going off of memory here, but I believe the SSi-4 takes into account any changes in grounding if the external sensor is hooked up properly.
Eric
I'm going off of memory here, but I believe the SSi-4 takes into account any changes in grounding if the external sensor is hooked up properly.
Eric
Yes, the SSI-4 has true differential inputs. You should not have to worry about ground offsets. For calibration, you would normally set the SSI-4 to external 0-5 Input, then set the units, min, and max in LogWorks ('Configure Channel'). If the input is linear, min/max values/voltages are all you need to specify. If the sensor is non linearly, you can enter a table of voltages and values by pressing "Custom Lookup" on the Configure Channel Dialog.
-jjf
#26
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I log everything And sort it with Excel.
Probably a dumb question, but in regards to the topic subject..
Would selecting fewer parameters to log, cause my logger get more samples/second??
Probably a dumb question, but in regards to the topic subject..
Would selecting fewer parameters to log, cause my logger get more samples/second??
#29
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personally i log everything from evoscan. when i bought my laptop i knew that i will be using it for such things so i got it with 2GB memory...
who is kind enough to explain how we should "translate" load values?
who is kind enough to explain how we should "translate" load values?
#30
-jjf