Need advice jester or custom dyno tune
Feb 6, 2007, 07:32 AM
#16
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Now, I'm not saying he does not know what he is doing, John is a really nice guy and was very helpfull. I can only assume that you would send him the lgs of the initial flash and he would drop the timing as needed to reduce knock.
Personally, I would go the other way, start with low timing and work up.
It is just not cost effective for a tuner to do as complete a custom tune as the owner would do, but you can get an excellent starting point (with dyno backed numbers to compare with latter changes) that just needs to be fine tuned in a few areas by going with a custom tune.
Feb 6, 2007, 07:58 AM
#17
Naji you are spreading nonsense -- John is a very reputable tuner. Are there things that can be done differently with any tuner -- yes, but does it make it better or worse is not always a simple answer. I have compared several professional tuners results (AFRs, timing, knock, power curves, etc.) as well as spoken to them about their approach, and think John (Jestr) is one of the best professional tuner resources the evo community has. Can someone else (highly skilled) get similar or better results with infinite hours of logging and tweaking -- likely. That said, there are few that would fall into this camp and therefore either a base tune or custom tune from John or others (e.g. Ivey, Alfred, Shiv, TT, etc.) is a great path to follow.
Feb 6, 2007, 08:56 AM
#19
Come on Bryan -- if that was done on a single tune, the customer could have easily contacted John and he would have rectified the problem many times over....Was the flash you are referring to a custom tune or a mail in? If it was a mail in, then there are a variety of reasons that could have caused a bad flash....
Feb 6, 2007, 08:58 AM
#20
Come on Bryan -- if that was done on a single tune, the customer could have easily contacted John and he would have rectified the problem many times over....Was the flash you are referring to a custom tune or a mail in? If it was a mail in, then there are a variety of reasons that could have caused a bad flash....
Ignorance is bliss I guess. You would be amazed how many roms I see without the injectors scaled properly. It goes back to what NJ is saying, some tuners just don't take the time. For $100 mail-in tunes I guess the temptation is too great.
Last edited by razorlab; Feb 6, 2007 at 09:02 AM.
Feb 6, 2007, 09:04 AM
#21
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Hi
Well you can say what you want about timing etc. But one thing that I really can't understand is the "pro" tuners who run maps with no boost cut.
Why set it at 319 with a delay of several seconds. Load scale of 290 is roughly 28 psi of boost, why not set it to that? With 1 sec delay this is more than enough headroom for the bigest of spikes. Why not tell the buyer that the max boost they can go to is 25 psi and set the cut at 275, that way they might not blow thier car up.
So anyone care to explain the 319 setting as a good bit of tuning work?
MB
Well you can say what you want about timing etc. But one thing that I really can't understand is the "pro" tuners who run maps with no boost cut.
Why set it at 319 with a delay of several seconds. Load scale of 290 is roughly 28 psi of boost, why not set it to that? With 1 sec delay this is more than enough headroom for the bigest of spikes. Why not tell the buyer that the max boost they can go to is 25 psi and set the cut at 275, that way they might not blow thier car up.
So anyone care to explain the 319 setting as a good bit of tuning work?
MB
Feb 6, 2007, 09:28 AM
#23
Jestr mail-ins are $50 (at least they were)-- which is an amazing deal...I do agree with the boost cut issue and altered mine...(Remember that a lot of the folks on this board are using MBCs, so the BCS is useless anyways....You just need to look at the specific situation and determine whether it is right for you...
Feb 6, 2007, 09:43 AM
#24
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Jestr mail-ins are $50 (at least they were)-- which is an amazing deal...I do agree with the boost cut issue and altered mine...(Remember that a lot of the folks on this board are using MBCs, so the BCS is useless anyways....You just need to look at the specific situation and determine whether it is right for you...
You're right about having to look at each case and I take your point about the MBC, but if that where the case why was the WGDC and target boost touched? Ok it might be so the owner could switch to EBC if they wanted.
This is not a slaging off just for the sake of it and but I happen to think there are to many problems with a lot of the maps kicking around out there, if a self tuner posted maps like these they would be advised to do a bit more work on them.
MB
Feb 6, 2007, 03:44 PM
#25
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why would the flash be that bad. I mean most of the flashes people receive from jestr are going to be on cars where logging software is being used as well as a wideband.
If it isn't right, you have a $200 subscription 6months to get it fixed. I mean if you can't fix that then there is other issues there.
If it isn't right, you have a $200 subscription 6months to get it fixed. I mean if you can't fix that then there is other issues there.
Feb 6, 2007, 04:30 PM
#26
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I say do it yourself. It is not that hard as long as you have the proper logging equipment.
Every tuner whose maps that I have seen or who I have dealth with has shown their shortcoming.
All they care about is a quick tune even those who promise to give you a custom tune and put the car on the dyno.
No one cares about your car more than you. The tuner cares the least especially if you have a finicky car.
If I where you my plan would be as follows.
1. Get the cat-back. Turbo cars love TBE.
2. Screw the intake. It will make your car harder to tune especially since you are new at this.
3. Get a digital wideband. My favorite is the Innovate due to their customer support and open business model. I hate cloak and dagger companies.
4. READ this forum. This forum is the BEST forum on EvoM. It has the smartest and most technicals savvy people. You will figure out who they are as you read their posts.
5. Get a Tactrix cable and a logging software. Evoscan, Mitsulogger or Logworks. All of them work.
6. Log, Log, Log.
7. Read your ROM image and become familiar with how to change it.
8. Make practice timing and fuel maps. Post the results here and see what the guys tell you.
9. After you have created a safe map, then flash your ECU with it.
10. Log the car and look at the results. Make changes based on log results. Repat until you have a safe map with good power.
Every tuner whose maps that I have seen or who I have dealth with has shown their shortcoming.
All they care about is a quick tune even those who promise to give you a custom tune and put the car on the dyno.
No one cares about your car more than you. The tuner cares the least especially if you have a finicky car.
If I where you my plan would be as follows.
1. Get the cat-back. Turbo cars love TBE.
2. Screw the intake. It will make your car harder to tune especially since you are new at this.
3. Get a digital wideband. My favorite is the Innovate due to their customer support and open business model. I hate cloak and dagger companies.
4. READ this forum. This forum is the BEST forum on EvoM. It has the smartest and most technicals savvy people. You will figure out who they are as you read their posts.
5. Get a Tactrix cable and a logging software. Evoscan, Mitsulogger or Logworks. All of them work.
6. Log, Log, Log.
7. Read your ROM image and become familiar with how to change it.
8. Make practice timing and fuel maps. Post the results here and see what the guys tell you.
9. After you have created a safe map, then flash your ECU with it.
10. Log the car and look at the results. Make changes based on log results. Repat until you have a safe map with good power.
I agree with this response also.
I started off modding my 03 evo and paying for an expensive mail in flash. I then added some stuff and paid to have the car re-tuned. Then added more stuff and paid more to have the car re-tuned. An so on and so forth.
Then I started wondering if the tune was safe enough, and despite assurances from my tuner, decided to do some logging on my own. (got a wideband and tactrix cable) What I found was more knock than I would like, and although in 15+ track days with my tuner's tune (some in 100+ degreee weather), I never blew the motor, I have started tuning the car myself, to add a larger margin of safety.
People on this forum and Norcalevo have been very helpful and its not rocket science, changing the fuel and timing maps.
Had i to do it over again, I'd buy the cable, and a wideband, do some logging, get some help online and do things myself.
I'm really coming to believe that there is enough variance between evo's that a mail in flash is not the way to go. Might be a good head start on tuning he car yourself tho'.
good luck!
Feb 6, 2007, 04:37 PM
#27
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why would the flash be that bad. I mean most of the flashes people receive from jestr are going to be on cars where logging software is being used as well as a wideband.
If it isn't right, you have a $200 subscription 6months to get it fixed. I mean if you can't fix that then there is other issues there.
If it isn't right, you have a $200 subscription 6months to get it fixed. I mean if you can't fix that then there is other issues there.
You buy a $1000 suit. It doesn't fit quite right.
You contact a "suit specialist" and he asks for your dimensions and says "cut here, and cut there. You will be fine"
Would you trust that?
And say you grow some ***** and some biceps.
Call the dude back and he goes...ok, cut here and then cut there again.
Again, would you trust that?
Cars are just machinery, but no two cars are identical.
I have tuned a handful of cars, many with similar setups and most have widely varying maps.
You can't fix something that's not in front of you. Not well at least.
Feb 6, 2007, 06:32 PM
#28
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