Evo anti-lag ECU disassembly
Nov 10, 2010, 08:11 AM
#513
These are the tables I am talking about and a link to the original thread-
best I could find is here...
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...d-limit-9.html
same thing I went through...
and seemingly not verifiable..
Ill take a closer look, but not very optimistic on this one.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...d-limit-9.html
same thing I went through...
and seemingly not verifiable..
Ill take a closer look, but not very optimistic on this one.
<scaling name="IgnTimingECUa" units="deg" toexpr="61-x*90/256" frexpr="(61-x)*256/90" format="%.1f" min="-30" max="50" inc="1" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>
<table name="Ignition Retard Limit #1" category="Timing" address="205e" type="1D" level="1" scaling="IgnTimingECUa"/>
<table name="Ignition Retard Limit #2" category="Timing" address="133e" type="1D" level="1" scaling="IgnTimingECUa"/>
yes, more than -10. Not sure if I have some other tables I have since forgotten about. As it is I forgot there were 3 I had done.
<table name="Ignition Retard Limit #1" category="Timing" address="205e" type="1D" level="1" scaling="IgnTimingECUa"/>
<table name="Ignition Retard Limit #2" category="Timing" address="133e" type="1D" level="1" scaling="IgnTimingECUa"/>
yes, more than -10. Not sure if I have some other tables I have since forgotten about. As it is I forgot there were 3 I had done.
Nov 10, 2010, 08:50 AM
#514
lol im sorry to burst your bubble but that is not for anti-lag. its funny how american people think that. thats what i kept getting told when i got my 7 registered. Then from knowledgeable people in the UK, i was told what its REALLY for.
its a SAS (secondary air system). Its basic purpose is to properly cool down the turbo. Look at any Non U.S. evo that swapped out the turbo, you will see that they eliminated it because its only purpose is to cool a turbo of that stature. If it was anti-lag, wouldnt you think they would have kept it?
You guys have only 1 outlet coming out from your UICP. i have 2. the other going to the pump that feeds the SAS. if you follow everything, its just air. all it does is puff.
you stated
"The minimum speed is 30km/h (30mph on mine because Mitsubishi UK fit a km/h-mph converter).
The minimum coolant temp is 81C.
Then it appears to need 2 sec over load 150 to start the triggering process.
Then if the load drops below 80 within 2 seconds of the above, there appears to be a 2 second delay before there is a 0.4 second pulse of fuel, and a zero pulse of air through the valve (this is mapped from 2000-6000 RPM in a table). It will run for up to 2 seconds.
"
yes, it has to meet certain requirements to activiate and you hear it when it does. when im in fifth, downshifting to fourth, going over 80km with RPMs over 4k for example, it will activivate and cool the turbo so its not over straining itself getting ready for a 4th gear pull.
sorry if you wasted you time doing all that work just for basically a moving turbo timer. lol
its useless.
THERE IS NO SNAPs, CRACKLES, or POPs!
if your looking for that, head to path mark and pick up rice crispies.
its a SAS (secondary air system). Its basic purpose is to properly cool down the turbo. Look at any Non U.S. evo that swapped out the turbo, you will see that they eliminated it because its only purpose is to cool a turbo of that stature. If it was anti-lag, wouldnt you think they would have kept it?
You guys have only 1 outlet coming out from your UICP. i have 2. the other going to the pump that feeds the SAS. if you follow everything, its just air. all it does is puff.
you stated
"The minimum speed is 30km/h (30mph on mine because Mitsubishi UK fit a km/h-mph converter).
The minimum coolant temp is 81C.
Then it appears to need 2 sec over load 150 to start the triggering process.
Then if the load drops below 80 within 2 seconds of the above, there appears to be a 2 second delay before there is a 0.4 second pulse of fuel, and a zero pulse of air through the valve (this is mapped from 2000-6000 RPM in a table). It will run for up to 2 seconds.
"
yes, it has to meet certain requirements to activiate and you hear it when it does. when im in fifth, downshifting to fourth, going over 80km with RPMs over 4k for example, it will activivate and cool the turbo so its not over straining itself getting ready for a 4th gear pull.
sorry if you wasted you time doing all that work just for basically a moving turbo timer. lol
its useless.
THERE IS NO SNAPs, CRACKLES, or POPs!
if your looking for that, head to path mark and pick up rice crispies.
Last edited by Yakshii; Nov 10, 2010 at 08:53 AM.
Nov 10, 2010, 09:17 AM
#515
American people?
Anyway, what we are doing is using a completely different approach than the actual anti lag maps to actually get what we want. You are misinformed on what the SAS is doing. SAS stands for Soft Anti-lag System not Turbo Air Cooler. The Group N usage of this system is normal anti-lag. Ramana Laggaman when he was renting the Cascade Autosport Evo 7 at Wild West a few years ago was using this as true antilag.
The fact that there are fuel timers we can play with that Mychailo has found (havent started playing with them yet) and the fact I do have 2 outlets in my UICP means I can make this do what I want.
Please read everything I have posted, not just the last post and you'll see what I mean. Basically I have made a system that acts like a throttle kicker without all the negatives of a throttle kicker. I can set the timing and fuel to what I want where its off throttle (>30% load) and add additional air to get a Bang. The fuel timer in the USDM cars is actually just under 1 second in stock form but that will be manipulated.
Cheers
Aaron
Anyway, what we are doing is using a completely different approach than the actual anti lag maps to actually get what we want. You are misinformed on what the SAS is doing. SAS stands for Soft Anti-lag System not Turbo Air Cooler. The Group N usage of this system is normal anti-lag. Ramana Laggaman when he was renting the Cascade Autosport Evo 7 at Wild West a few years ago was using this as true antilag.
The fact that there are fuel timers we can play with that Mychailo has found (havent started playing with them yet) and the fact I do have 2 outlets in my UICP means I can make this do what I want.
Please read everything I have posted, not just the last post and you'll see what I mean. Basically I have made a system that acts like a throttle kicker without all the negatives of a throttle kicker. I can set the timing and fuel to what I want where its off throttle (>30% load) and add additional air to get a Bang. The fuel timer in the USDM cars is actually just under 1 second in stock form but that will be manipulated.
Cheers
Aaron
Last edited by JohnBradley; Nov 10, 2010 at 09:20 AM.
Nov 10, 2010, 09:49 AM
#516
Thats not what it stands for.. when i got opensource tuned and it was WRITTEN on The ECU. what you are describing is a Secondary Air System.
There is no factory anti-lag.
i have read manuals and diagrams from Mitsubishi and the actual pump that follows through to the second opening of the UICP and also follows to the openings on the exhaust manifold are for the SAS. if i misread something and you are NOT talking about this, i can apologize and assure it was simple miscommunicate and i retract whatever i state, but if you ARE talking about the same thing as me, i am 99.9% right
i can take pics all over my engine bay and follow everything for you.
and by american people, i mean when i would go to meets, all the evo owners told me it was for anti-lag when the guys from UK told me the real deal.
Nov 10, 2010, 05:17 PM
#517
Evolving Member
Thats not what it stands for.. when i got opensource tuned and it was WRITTEN on The ECU. what you are describing is a Secondary Air System.
There is no factory anti-lag.
i have read manuals and diagrams from Mitsubishi and the actual pump that follows through to the second opening of the UICP and also follows to the openings on the exhaust manifold are for the SAS. if i misread something and you are NOT talking about this, i can apologize and assure it was simple miscommunicate and i retract whatever i state, but if you ARE talking about the same thing as me, i am 99.9% right
i can take pics all over my engine bay and follow everything for you.
and by american people, i mean when i would go to meets, all the evo owners told me it was for anti-lag when the guys from UK told me the real deal.
There is no factory anti-lag.
i have read manuals and diagrams from Mitsubishi and the actual pump that follows through to the second opening of the UICP and also follows to the openings on the exhaust manifold are for the SAS. if i misread something and you are NOT talking about this, i can apologize and assure it was simple miscommunicate and i retract whatever i state, but if you ARE talking about the same thing as me, i am 99.9% right
i can take pics all over my engine bay and follow everything for you.
and by american people, i mean when i would go to meets, all the evo owners told me it was for anti-lag when the guys from UK told me the real deal.
Nov 10, 2010, 05:51 PM
#518
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Thats not what it stands for.. when i got opensource tuned and it was WRITTEN on The ECU. what you are describing is a Secondary Air System.
There is no factory anti-lag.
i have read manuals and diagrams from Mitsubishi and the actual pump that follows through to the second opening of the UICP and also follows to the openings on the exhaust manifold are for the SAS. if i misread something and you are NOT talking about this, i can apologize and assure it was simple miscommunicate and i retract whatever i state, but if you ARE talking about the same thing as me, i am 99.9% right
i can take pics all over my engine bay and follow everything for you.
and by american people, i mean when i would go to meets, all the evo owners told me it was for anti-lag when the guys from UK told me the real deal.
There is no factory anti-lag.
i have read manuals and diagrams from Mitsubishi and the actual pump that follows through to the second opening of the UICP and also follows to the openings on the exhaust manifold are for the SAS. if i misread something and you are NOT talking about this, i can apologize and assure it was simple miscommunicate and i retract whatever i state, but if you ARE talking about the same thing as me, i am 99.9% right
i can take pics all over my engine bay and follow everything for you.
and by american people, i mean when i would go to meets, all the evo owners told me it was for anti-lag when the guys from UK told me the real deal.
If I can find the pdf files willing to send them to whomever wishes.
However, as Aaron and others from the UK have shown as well, the piping or SAS parts can be used as (il)legitmate form of anti lag. Only need, air, fuel and a very hot manifold to create the effect.
the whole point of this thread, is to have anti lag on oem factory bits...much like a group N car...using oem ecu and oem SAS system (in my case and non usdm evos)
Aaron is going about this differently than owners of non USDM cars as he does not have teh piping (but if he needs it I can send to him btw)
this thread is very long...just hopping in here on whatever page it is...not very constructive
Nov 10, 2010, 05:55 PM
#519
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Also...
The reason for why the SAS system is placed in evo's in the first place is beyond me.
We also have access to all the UK sites and really there is no answer on any english speaking site that is satisfactory.
L aunsport (or otherwise called WRC custom in japan) and HKS I believe also used to manufacture/source much larger SAS piping...sooooo really leads me to believe it is/can be used as legitimate ALS
If anything, people just remove it, since without any tuning, dosnt really do anything.
Best theory is that it is in the cars because of homolgation reasons...but it is only a theory...
so is injecting "cold air" into the turbo.
The reason for why the SAS system is placed in evo's in the first place is beyond me.
We also have access to all the UK sites and really there is no answer on any english speaking site that is satisfactory.
L aunsport (or otherwise called WRC custom in japan) and HKS I believe also used to manufacture/source much larger SAS piping...sooooo really leads me to believe it is/can be used as legitimate ALS
If anything, people just remove it, since without any tuning, dosnt really do anything.
Best theory is that it is in the cars because of homolgation reasons...but it is only a theory...
so is injecting "cold air" into the turbo.
Last edited by Maikumaru; Nov 10, 2010 at 06:06 PM.
Nov 10, 2010, 06:06 PM
#520
Well I dont want to look unprofessional so I will discontinue the SAS discussion for the time being. I do know for 100% certainty that it gets utilised for Anti Lag in the Group N stuff.
What We are doing here (specifically me) is not using any of the factory stuff for Antilag. The other NWer that is doing testing with me, Andrew, is using the SAS hardware for the actual air injection and then our own solution for the actual control.
aaron
What We are doing here (specifically me) is not using any of the factory stuff for Antilag. The other NWer that is doing testing with me, Andrew, is using the SAS hardware for the actual air injection and then our own solution for the actual control.
aaron
Nov 10, 2010, 06:12 PM
#521
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Well I dont want to look unprofessional so I will discontinue the SAS discussion for the time being. I do know for 100% certainty that it gets utilised for Anti Lag in the Group N stuff.
What We are doing here (specifically me) is not using any of the factory stuff for Antilag. The other NWer that is doing testing with me, Andrew, is using the SAS hardware for the actual air injection and then our own solution for the actual control.
aaron
What We are doing here (specifically me) is not using any of the factory stuff for Antilag. The other NWer that is doing testing with me, Andrew, is using the SAS hardware for the actual air injection and then our own solution for the actual control.
aaron
how is the other NWer coming along with the air injection?
Is he using your method in conjunction with the air and negative timing on lift off?
I have been meaning to ask if you have been able to get it to work while at idle...
we have been playing around with air injection and the timing, but no go for stationairy...thought it would be cool
Nov 11, 2010, 04:07 AM
#522
Which iscv tables did you change ?
In group-N you dont have to make any change on the engine except an exhaust system with cat and the Ecu, so the stock air inejction-sas system is not enough for that king of "als" . You can not drill up the banjo and like this in group-N . They do the trick controling the idle stepper by standalone.
In Group-A you can make little more mods with the engine like i think the the throttle kicker too.
Last edited by VGergo; Nov 11, 2010 at 04:15 AM.
Nov 11, 2010, 11:47 AM
#523
The ones that say decel fuel are actually ISCV tables. MrFred updated all that in the ISCV control thread recently.
Andrew has all the hardware on the car and is controlling it the same way I do with timing and fueling in the actual map and the secondary BOV/Diverter for airflow to the manifold. The Group N hardware was used on the Cascade car but it was Open so I am sure it was actually using a throttle kicker.
Aaron
Andrew has all the hardware on the car and is controlling it the same way I do with timing and fueling in the actual map and the secondary BOV/Diverter for airflow to the manifold. The Group N hardware was used on the Cascade car but it was Open so I am sure it was actually using a throttle kicker.
Aaron
Nov 11, 2010, 11:54 AM
#525
lol no worries
how is the other NWer coming along with the air injection?
Is he using your method in conjunction with the air and negative timing on lift off?
I have been meaning to ask if you have been able to get it to work while at idle...
we have been playing around with air injection and the timing, but no go for stationairy...thought it would be cool
how is the other NWer coming along with the air injection?
Is he using your method in conjunction with the air and negative timing on lift off?
I have been meaning to ask if you have been able to get it to work while at idle...
we have been playing around with air injection and the timing, but no go for stationairy...thought it would be cool