OK, I have done some homework. I am using evoscan 2.5.

I tried some aggressively stunted settings on the WGDC tables to confirm I was having an impact on the behavior last night. I did, however those logs are attached as BEFORE.zip. Here is a screenshot of that log. I don't have WGDC on here yet, because this log is before nonschlot instruction, but I am still getting to 28psi.?


These are the settings I tried based on nonschlont's advice. I didn't do any scaling changes yet to the xml files, because I didn't want to throw in too many moving pieces until I get a handle on the boosting stuff.


From there I have logs like this:

Thats a screenshot of the Boosting.zip attached xcel file.

I have a million others, but why would I be getting max boost before 100% TPS?

Why am I still with 27-28 psi with the above settings?

THX M

 

The setting I recommended were actually similar to my settings. Every car is different... You might see higher boost, earlier on than I do, and you might need less duty cycle than I need, which this might be the case. I would guess that was a 4th gear pull. You will boost slightly more in higher gears. Lower your duty cycle. Zero out your BEC, do a 3rd gear pull from 2000rpm to 7000, maybe 7500. Then do a 4th gear pull from 3000 to same. And try to find the middle ground between hitting target boost in 3rd, and overshooting in 4th, and 5th, and maybe 6th.

Im not sure if you started your pull when you heard the voice command, or it just started as you were doing your pull, because of the TPS issue. Im not sure wsup w/ that. What is your formula in evoscan?

Another thing, re-scale your rpm axis for your boost tables(WGDC/BaselineBoost), to get better resolution/control where you need it. 500/2000/2500/3000/3500/3750/4000/4250/4500/4750/5000/5500/6000/6500/7000/7500, or however you like. Since you have 100% duty cycle till 2500, you could better utilize the 1000/1500/2250/2750 cells. You will have more control over the meaty part of the powerband, rather than spool up.

 

I will set the WGDC back more tomorrow. Which would actually be again, because the first pull image was with the WGDC tables set to 75s and 70s, and I still got 28psi.

Silly question, but what should the TPS read at idle? 0?
Should my range be 0-100? Why would I have 14 as the lowest? I ideas?

Am I losing it, or could a faulty TPS cause this, and then affect my ability to tune predictably? Are the TPS' common to fail or can they be adjusted?

Or is this a setting or scaling that I have wrong in ECUFlash, and have flashed to the ECU?

Sorry for the OT, but solving this will get me back to ECU direct boost control, which I have gotten lots of help on from everyone, but may have other issues in the way. I will Jump the TPS topic to here.

Thanks a ton nonschlot ....... more logs tomorrow.

 

The stock turbo can hit full boost on less than 100% WOT. TPS is never 0 even at idle.

 

is there a school of thought that says, wastegate should be at zero until you really want it to open up?

I thought I read once that it helped spool to keep it closed as long as possible.

 

Higher wastegate duty cycle = more time "closed". If you are in that school of thought you would want to keep it at 100% as long as possible until you are actually in your control area.

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It is definitely possible to get near full boost without being anywhere near 100% TPS... this has always been the case on my car, even when stock.

Mbartel, I suggest you spend some time reading the whole of this thread. Most of your questions and the things you are learning by (ouch!) trial and error have already been covered by others who felt "the pain" already. This thread is way more than comprehensive, but I think you could probably save time by reading it rather than re-inventing the wheel.

Also, every car is different, but I think you may be a little high still at 78% bwgdc. 2 psi wouldn't be a 2% difference. Mathematically it should be 28/24.6 = 1.13 or 13% too high (this does not translate well to the real world, but is probably much closer than 2%)

 

Fostytou, thanks for the info and feedback. Man, you are always on me when I get into these posts.
I did read the entire post, and almost all posts in this forum. Just ask my wife what I do every night besides pay attention to her! I think I am just stupider than the rest of you guys, so it takes me longer. The info on the posts isn't always conclusive, definitive, or consistent. There is lots of interpretation going on. Providing my examples and screen shots seemed appropriate for me to learn. I also broke off my TPS topic/tangent into another thread without prompt last night trying to respect the thread topic. I also restate topics in new threads with what I learned, more of a How To For Idiots version. So my point is the Gurus time is not wasted in helping me or commenting on my posts. I'll make sure to reread this entire post tonight before I post any more issues on here. (and before I do another log)

"Higher wastegate duty cycle = more time "closed""
I didn't know that key definition/piece. What does the value indicate? A unit of time, a unit or measure, or a percent of unit of time? 80 what versus 77 what? If its 80 more time closed, then 80 more time closed than .....? Not just 80 more than 77 more times closed. Mechanically the 80 means the actuator or valve is ..... what?

Those are the kind of theoretical basics I am looking for in these threads. A concrete relationship of the numbers into the mechanical actions in the system.

M

 

I'm only pushing you to be better

A wastegate solenoid, or any 3 port solenoid for that matter has a normally closed (NC) connection or a "rest" position and a normally open (NO) or "activated" position (Think like a circuit where closed means connected). This defines the connection from the input port. The value you are placing in the bwgdc tables represents a % of [arbitrary] time that a signal is being sent to that valve to actuate from NC to NO. (Obviously in the real world this takes time, but we'll leave that out of this discussion for now).

So, for instance, if you are currently at a setting of 30%, a signal is being sent to the solenoid to be on for 30% of any given time period, and off for the other 70%. The actual frequency (hz) does not necessarily matter (for our purposes) as this can be instantaneous or over a larger period of time. This signals the solenoid to allow boost to the WGA for 70% of the time (pushing it to open it and lowering boost) and fresh air into the WGA for 30% of the time (releasing pressure on the WGA spring, closing the wastegate, and increasing boost).

The "closing" of the WGS and WGA are inversely proportional as allowing the WGS to rest at close pushes air (pressure/work) on the WGA spring which opens the WGA itself, bleeding off exhaust gas/potential energy that would otherwise spin the turbine.


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EDIT: to make things more confusing I may have mixed up NO / NC on the solenoid, but the principals all still apply. Work has got my head spinning.

Either way, a higher WGDC will keep the WGA closed longer, increasing boost.

 

Nice! That needs to be its own post with a logical searchable Title. Anyone that wants to understand the WGDC mechanics, like I did, can search by title and find that! For guys like me that level of detail is needed to understand the software impacts.
Thanks!

 

fosty knows his stuff! I have learned quite a bit form the data he provides. Im still learning... Im like you, I read threads every night, much to my GF's dismay.

I agree that 78% might still be a lil high for your car. Only way to find out is to log the recommended parameters, follow the curve and add/subtract duty cycle as needed.

Im not sure about the TPS thing... I wouldnt worry about it for now. Just do a pull from 2000, (cruise right ~ 2000,wait till you here the voice command, and then mash the gas! That way we can tell when exactly you went 100% TPS.
My TPS @ idle is 14%... I think some1 posted up a new definition to see 0% @ idle, but just put it in w/ my notes and never gave it a shot... I will look for it...

W/ my car, 1% change = ~1 psi change... Is this out of the norm???

 

I'm using the OMNI power 4 bar map sensor and I used John Bradley's setup for ADC values.

However...my ECU based boost control is referencing some weird offset of my actual boost. Logged boost values are correct, target boost settings and boost adders are correct, the ecu based boost control targets a boost approximately 7psi higher than my inputted target boost.

Is this the map vs. baro offset? lmk

88970015 - Evo9

 

bump for xml for 88580013/14

 

Nonschlont & Fousty - Thanks
I re read most of the post last night (damn this is a long), and lots of things finally clicked though into my thick skull. Fousty you were right again. damnit.

I have a couple silly questions, that I just want to confirm/restate:

My WGDC settings are all still too high, especially for managing the overboost. For the sake of this process I need to set them to 50s and 60s and see what JDMMAP readings I get in a log with BEC zereod out. Then I can ramp up the WGDC until I get values in JDMMAP that are on track with my desired BB tables (my desired boost curve).

I use a GruppeS 3 port BCS. I reconnected all fittings last night with new clamps to make sure there are no leak issues there. Reading about the 3 ports on this forum had me wondering in what way or direction that specific BCS should normally impact my WGDC settings. I have no pills and 3 ports connected. ?

Embarrassingly my other fuzzy area is still Open and Closed loop and which tuning principals are directly impacted depending on that state. I started wondering (read:getting myself confused) if the settings I am making in the ECU direct Boost Control only have an impact at WOT, or Open Loop. For instance I understand (a little) that the AFR in Closed Loop calibrates itself to 14.7. So part throttle adjusts to there, but during Open Loop, WOT, the AFR tables are referenced. Does the OpenClosed Loop issue have a direct impact on weather other tables are used or not, like Boost. Logically I have deduced that all the Boost tables are used regardless of Open or Closed Loop, because I can make alterations and they reflect in the logs even at less than 100% TPS readings, but I wanted to make sure and restate this for my one clarity.

THX

 

Is your boost adder set correctly? If it is anything over ~14.5 (IE, is yours set at 21.5?) you will be targeting higher boost levels.

Boost settings should apply regardless of open/closed loop. Your settings will probably be similar to other 3 ports, you just need to try them to find out. I believe that solenoid was found to be slightly less responsive, but the that doesn't mean your settings should be too far off from other 3 ports. I would start out with your WGDC @ 50% across the board and see what actual boost you are running. On my O2 housing/downpipe/stock catback IX ~56% was overshoot on the AEM 3 port during the winter. Never hurts to start low and work your way up... just remember that the boost will come on at a lower RPM in higher gears, so if you aren't using gear based control 5th is going to spike like crazy if you tune for a quick spool in 3rd or 4th.

 

Frost,