JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

Sean, while I do not disagree that ultimately a standalone will function better (simply because most have a faster more expensive processor), I am curious in regards to your statement about resolution. You prefer the resolution closer than 500 rpm? The load axis closer than 20% increments? In regards to the load I can see where being closer than 20 or 30 could have advantages and more than that can be problematic but I am just trying to grok your statement.

EDIT-

For instance this just a quick rescale-




VS a mostly stock rescale of an VIII-

Sean@Iveytune

iTrader: (14)

If I put a t67 on the car and run it at 25psi and 480 hp, then I tunr the boost up to 45psi, does the ecu differentiate between the 2? I know you can scale the map, but does the physical characteristics of the airflow meter not determine the ultimate limit.

So if at 25psi we are on that 375 bar, then what about at 45psi?

Sean

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

Yep. If you look at the log I just posted in the other thread here, you will see that I am outside the stock ecu's parameters from 4000rpms onward. And that is on just 100octane and 23.5psi. So, for a full half of my powerband, the tuning is pretty limited. On C16 and high boost, just forget about it.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

No the airflow meter may be the limitation, but you can work around that with an aftermarket meter. That was my whole original point. The limitation is indeed in the MAF and not the ECU itself.

THere is a **HUGE** reason for running a stock ECU, a stock ecu can pass an inspection if properly configured. And although a modified ECU is no longer truely emission legal, it will still pass an OBD-II check. That is something a standalone will never realistically be able to do. This sort of thing is a big concern for many people as it gets harder to get cars to pass an inspection in some states. Obviously this goes along with other modifications but you get my point.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

You are right though, until there is a tool or package to modify the stock ECU that is fairly foolproof, then all of this is experimental and probably not the best solution for a tuner.

Sean@Iveytune

iTrader: (14)

Jack,
I love the stock ECU for the lower HP apps, it's great, but again if you need to get the job done right you have to at some point switch to something more practical and stable, some people have alot of money into the engines and there is no point in skimping on management.
I do agree with you that for inspection purposes you need the stock ecu, we have a program for that but I am not willing to discuss that on here.

Until there is more development done, where you have more range in the airmeter, you are doing tuning on the last range and that is not how this thing is done.


Sean

Sean@Iveytune

iTrader: (14)

Smoggie,

I do alot of cars and I have noticed this many many times. Once you get to a certain point it's a hack, it isn't being done right and god forbid you turn it up a few lbs after it's tuned, you could potentially get into a dangerous area.

The AEM is good as is the HKS FCON Vpro, but you have to have a very good tuner who knows whichever system.

Motec and Autronic are very good too.

The AEM and VPRO are my top choices though for the evo, due to the features offered, and great price.

Sean

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

I concur

I would not run more than 475 - 480 on a stock maf

I have worked with various maf translators over the past few months which may afford better over 500 whp power - however most of my customers that want to go ver 500 whp go with a stand alone 9on most cases AEM)

Yesterday I made 546 whp on a stock ecu, maf, block GT35 car with race gas

Again - after 480 you are tuning with little or no resolution or head room

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

I concur - the stock ecu has to many limitations and compromises which render it a poor high whp tuning aide

of course guys like master Buschur used stock ecus and VPC's and the like back in the day to go fast but that was before the advent of inexpensive and powerful stand alone ecus

Al

Sean@Iveytune

iTrader: (14)

Yes Al I concur, I made 568WHP on stock block with meth pump, 500WHP on pump only yesterday, and all on stock ecu, it's still a hack.

Sean

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

If the speed density patch proves to be as configurable as I think it might be, then it wouldnt be too bad. Until that "product" is foolproof as an AEM or Autronic I fully agree with you. Jack can correct me if I am wrong but it uses the load percentage to represent VE. At that point you could rescale it to what you need, and if the 3 bar isnt enough you could switch to a 5bar I would presume (after verifying the voltages at a given boost).

But then again since you wouldnt have features like ignition controlled launches, NLTS, Anti-lag, boost comp, multiple injectors, etc. why go through the hassle when the AEM will drop in? There is the cold start driveability but who is gonna daily that T67 car in the middle of winter?

Mad_SB

iTrader: (8)

An easy option is to convert to a gm 3.5" maf with a maftranslator (about $250 worth of parts, plus you have to rework the UIP if you want to go to blow through) then rescale the stock ecu tables to suit the load and rpm break points you want.

I just did a 2.3 9 with 37r an 1000cc pte's this way. Works fine. Plus you can still pass an OBDII inspection, which is required in many parts of georgia. Stand alone is not always an option. Just my 2C worth.

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

If anyone wants to try this, I've got a brand new 3.5 inch GM MAF sitting on a shelf. I already sold the Translator though.

bez_bashni

My 2 cents.

For some reasons I have spend much time exploring the stock ecu-first I wanted to save $$ on standalone , than got interested discovering how ecu works, than I found there are no thing except MegaSquirt with open source - or at least where you can change anything yourself like you want. But stock ecu far more advanced than MegaSquirt and PowerFC -it has faster much better processor and you can do everything with it..It has spare ADC inputs to log wideband and EGT, you can write yourself wideband and EGT trims ,use spare outputs for water injection or any other project like extra electronic throttle before turbo like they had in '80 turboformula era...

Ok back to MAF(S) topic... I also explored this masterpiece quite close...It can work without problems over 600HP but it requires ideal surrounding...
Tested in my config: The pipe between turbo and MAS have to have 90 degree bend and be thick - it have to reduce to MAS outlet smothly-the aftermarket filter can cause turbuleces-choose it carefully-or put a pipe between mas and filter..

Mas calculates vortexes -if you will give it laminar flow it will calculate air correct - fight the turbo vortexes by bend and filter fortexes by correct filter or extra piece of pipe...

tkklemann

iTrader: (6)

Nevermind, see next post. More relevant.