fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

I do have logs of both on the same tune. The tune itself is outdated now, but not the timing map. Only AFR as I ran it very rich, being my first track day since my build (about a year). My load 'home' tuning peaked at 280-290 for 3rd pulls.

I then logged the track day which does take me up to 140mph, and I logged a peak load of 330.

Not sure what your question is exactly, but maybe I can provide some data. Its not a very sorted tune yet, but now really in progress. AFR is likely the worst from those logs and already addressed. I left it like that for the track day because of the 110F temps, and the worry that I might have something wrong. I almost got 6mpg on track, but not quite.

I have zillions of log files, but here are two that show the difference.

Here was a typical pull before I went to track day. Rich, and low on knock.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41298765/Ev..._3rd_1pull.csv

Here is a full track session for comparison.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41298765/Ev...wySession4.csv

I have several questions in that latter log that is going to likely be the beginning of another post about explosions of knock (10s even 25s a couple of times) in 50% throttle 4500rpm, every now and then. WTH is that, and that doesn't ever show up in 3rd gear dash logging for sure.

nightwalker

I'll post up my fuel map after I get off work tomorrow. My timing map is on page 115 of this thread. There's a lot of crap being spewed around on EvoM, so I stopped paying attention and just did my own thing.

killerpenguin21

iTrader: (20)

yeah thats what i was afraid of. on the street i run right about 240 load, and my afr is nice and stable...then on track i suck down fuel to the tune of 7mpg or so and the car feels a little sluggish (except this weekend since i ran 100oct). i copied my 240 load colum out to 260 load thinking that would cover me.

i guess im not understanding why load would skyrocket on track with way more heat etc. now i need to find a way to tune for it...

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

Rpm may be a factor especially with a 5 speed on track. Load seems to be higher for a given boost level in a taller gear. 21 psi is 330 load at 4000 rpm in 3rd but fifth gear sees 350 load at 21 psi 3500 rpm. I'm also speed density.

killerpenguin21

iTrader: (20)

ive logged 3rd and 4th through the same rpm's many times (2500-7000) and my load values follow basically the same path, with a tad higher peak spike in 4th. track ive been running is primarily 4th gear, so i figured i would have had it worked out...but i think im very wrong.

i ran 4 gallons of vp100 in a half tank of shell 93 this weekend, and according to my boost gauge i was up maybe a pound from 24-25 but other two times out i was pretty much dead on where i needed to be. my concern is just manually extrapolating the map out without actually seeing the true load.

i guess its also an argument for ecu boost in my case.

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

Isn't pressure independent of air flow? So if you shoot for the same psi on a really hot day then you have to have more airflow due to lesser air density ?

killerpenguin21

iTrader: (20)

thats exactly why im confused. i had thought that at equivalent boost, on track i should hit the same load if not less due to high ambient temp +heat soaking the entire system. but it actually appears that load is increasing.

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

Is there compensations in load for iat ?

ExViTermini

iTrader: (25)

Here's the map I just got done doing two days solid of road racing on. 93 octane, plus I spiked it with some Torco just for extra safety...but I have the low knock light set at 3 counts, and I never saw it 270ish load@4k to 230/240@7k, 24psi. VDR~350whp

killerpenguin21

iTrader: (20)

no idea. i do have safety nets maintained in the iat vs timing table and the iat coolant tables, but not sure if there are iat vs fuel tables?

it could also all be in my head of course too i just want to remove as much work from the fuel system as possible for a given power level, yet remain safe.

nightwalker

A shot of my fuel map. I think this view will give you guys a better idea of how to model your own fuel maps.



Same strategy as timing map. Taking note of the peak load, high rpm, and closed loop/spool areas, then blending them together and testing, blend again, test, etc. until the AFR's are where I want them to be.

The fuel map takes so much freakin time when you first start messing with it, but once you dial it in for your car, unless you make a big change, like cams, or different turbo, it will pretty much follow the same curve.

To answer a previous question, I have lean spool turned off, and that's basically it. I believe in not messing too much with the other parameters. I also never liked SD on the factory computer, so I stay with my MAF. I also enjoy twisty roads and response much more than highway pulls so I tune my car for as fat as a torque curve as I can.

b16a2delsol

iTrader: (1)

Your fuel maps will Not be the same as someone else's . Most that I have seen share very little of the same characteristics with one another.... I will post mine later

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

That is exactly what I learned from this track session. I actually read through all 2 hours of logged data, and found load to be very high compared to anything that I have tuned for. My maps don't even go past 300, because I never adjust them, and I am hitting 330 in the higher gears. I just assumed it was a gear factor since I tune with 3rd by my house, and then on track was hitting extended 5th up to 140mph.

@nightwalker, thanks for the info/data. I am impressed with how much timing you are running on 91, and trying to figure out what is so different about your setup that allows that. Do you mind posting your Mivec map.

And yes I am spending a ton of time on my AFR map now, but I am trying to see if I can run LS in a lesser manner, where its impact is a .5 factor instead of over a full point. I am still kind of fishing around in the dark though, because I don't really have a strong sense of what my preferred AFR targets should be. Especially big gap in my head is where exactly the closed loop to open transition is and how to handle AFRs there in a relatively small set of cells.

nightwalker

I tried LS back and forth for almost a year and it never worked right for me.

I started out with the generally accepted rule of 13.0 in spool dropping to 12.0, dropping to 11.5 at peak load, dropping to 10.9 at redline.

As I datalogged and tweaked, I learned that AFR's are not going to be exact everytime, and they bounce around a ton. So I'll log 3-4 runs and average it out.

I also found that running richer is better, to a point. Each car is a little different, so you have to find out how rich you can run before it doesn't like it. Then I leave it there. It also helps make the car consistent.

A couple things I have done that allows me to run the boost and timing I run are in the details and not the parts installed. I have a 2003, so no Mivec.

I have thoroughly cleaned out my intake manifold, throttle body and pipping since I installed my aftermarket intercooler. Then I have both PCV and breather opened up and set to a custom catch can on both sides to that I don't have any oil contamination. The oil reduces your effective octane.

I also have my intake blocked off from under hood heat and supplied a source of fresh air with an external duct. During summer in Cali, I'll get as high as 150 degrees IAT idling, on a 100 degree day. But as soon as I get some speed, around 30mph or so, the IAT's will reduce almost instantly to around 110. On cooler days, I've been able to get even closer to ambient.

Also forgot to mention that I have ported my hotside on my IX turbo and O2 housing. The turbo hotside I played with a bunch of different porting styles, and the best one is a super smooth mirror finish after removing all sharp bends and angles. The aftermarket O2 housing, I just smoothed everything out internally.

I've had the HKS, Vibrant/Buschur, Perrin, Fuita, bolt onto MAF directly type, AEM, and I've found that this air filter makes the most power.
http://afepower.com/shop/custom/filter.php


All these things have helped me extract the most out of my simple setup, so hopefully they'll help you guys too.

Evo3573

iTrader: (25)

I wanted to see what you guys think about my timing map.
This is my first time tuning my evo. So be easy
Mods are:
Buschur built 2.0
Buschur race fmic
Gsc S3 cams
Stock 8 turbo 9.8 hotside
93oct @ 26psi.