Appauldd

iTrader: (22)

Since you just installed the JDM sensor, you may want to see how much better the car runs first. Turing your boost down really isn't necessary at the top end as it tapers any way. Our 8s are more prone to mid RPM knock than high RPM knock because of richening AFR and boost taper. Just a thought.

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

You misunderstood. I want to lower my peak boost at my peak torque/load so I dont need to have the ECU to ramp up drastically from 2-3* at peak torque on its way to 20+* at redline. It''s much easier to have the ECU interpolate as LITTLE as possible at a lower peak boost from say...5-8* and ramp up towards 20* at redline. I hold nearly 24 psi at 7500rpm with a stiffer WGA and my hotside's outlet ported to an inch of its life lol.

Appauldd

iTrader: (22)

Ahh I see said the blind man.

I too am doing simular. My timing ramp rates were way too great in the spool up area. I was a bit too lean too. By reducing the timing and adding some fuel, my TQ has went way up. Also, spool has greatly improved.

John F

Hi Jamie

I'm surprised you can't run more timing. I have almost the same mods as you except I have the standard exhaust manifold and a quiet (restrictive) Biltz NURspec RX exhaust. What sort of AFR are you running and how much water/meth? My AFR is 12 from max boost to redline, start injecting at about 7psi with max injection at 25psi. Here's my current timing map for 50/50.

RoadSpike

iTrader: (5)

It looks like the 140-180 load cells need some smoothing out the timing goes down then shoots back up at the 200 load point and onward where i'd guess most of your tuning is done.

Pull out the graph feature and just smooth out that area.

EE

iTrader: (9)

I too think that Jack_of_trade's map has very low timing at peek boost, for some reason... John F map is more where it should be.

I don't have meth where i live, so i'm running an ehtanol/water mixture. I can hit the timing of John F at peak load, but for some reason can't get high timing at higher rpm's (12-13 at 6500 252 load and 14 at 7000 rpm 238 load).

J_O_T: what's the reasoning behind peak load at 4000 rpm (kinda late??) ? i would assume to allow for more top end boost/power?

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

My car HATES too much timing at peak load, always has. I run 50/50 distilled water and meth and it activates at 170 load and runs off my injector duty cycle so its an even mix throughout my powerband. A lot of other kits are either ON of OFF which will have a higher percentage of meth injection at lower RPM and slowly trickle off as RPM increases. Its just the way my Aquamist kit works. If I had it pouring a ton of alky down the engines throat at peak load I'm sure I could add more timing there.

I was running 100% meth but wasn't getting good results with high boost and the stock FMIC and piping so I added the water to the mix to counteract the insane air intake temps and it worked beautifully. If I had installed a more efficient FMIC I woulda went back to a mix with less water, if not 100% meth again. I run 11.3-11.5AFR's generally. No need to go much leaner since the power gains on my setup will be minimal and there is no need to push my luck with lean AFR's really.

I'm sure it can handle more timing overall but I just havent had the time to really focus on where my limits are with my powerband. Busy busy over here...all the time lol.

John F

No. It is deliberate. If I'm in that area of the timing map I'm at part throttle, not injecting much meth, just waiting to mash the throttle. This is an area of very quick spool and I've found keeping the timing the same as my standard map in this area reduces the chances of knock on spool. It essentially gives the meth injection time to kick in before the timing gets high. If anything maybe the 200 column should come down a little but it has not been an issue.

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

Thats gonna make for one UGLY timing curve and will make the ECU work harder than it has to in that 200 load column. A smooth map minimizes knock issues from the ECU trying to "keep up" basically. You really should have the timing be a smooth transition all the way across, regardless of the pre-meth/post-meth crossover point.

John F

Aren't you running too rich? Don't forget the water/meth is fuel. I leaned out my fuel map by up to 0.5 or so (11 in the map would became 11.5). My IDCs max out the same with my 50/50 as they do with my standard map even though I'm running more boost and making a lot more power.

John F

Here's a timing graph from a 2000 to 7200rpm pull. I hadn't really noticed before but you can see the bump at 3000rpm where it hits 200 load. I'll adjust the 200 load column a little. BTW the knock count of 4 at 4500rpm is quite unusual. I have the cel set to flash at 4 and above and it seldon comes on.

RoadSpike

iTrader: (5)

Ok that makes some sense, have you experimented with a smoother timing ramp up than the jump as seen in your log?

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

People think that you can go leaner with meth kits...not sure why they think this is the rule really.

HERE is an old post i made that give you an IDEA of how it all breaks down for my application at least. I tend to find its best to stick to the 11.3-11.7AFR range when spraying meth with regular pump gas. But then again, it all depends on your ratio of gasoline, water and meth really.

burnzy

iTrader: (1)

alot of people run 50/50, isn't it true yuo can lean out alot more with water?

Appauldd

iTrader: (22)

Jack....I am with you....My car HATES timing too. I started with a stock (ralliart) map and it had too much timing for my application. Knocked like crazy and was far too lean.

Every car is going to be a bit different. We have to tune to the specific car and what it likes. In my case at peak boost (28PSI) I cannot put in more that 2 degrees without knock. Crazy thing though, I ramp up to 14* at 7800RPM.

I suppose I could run more timing if I turned off Lean Spool, but for a daily driver that sees the occasional track I would rather leave it enabled for the low end torque and quick spool characteristics. Makes the car much more fun to drive....just point and shoot.

Oh and no meth for me. Just straight 93 pump.