**Lean Idle with 50-trim, Cossies, and PTE 880s***
Nov 27, 2007, 07:40 PM
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**Lean Idle with 50-trim, Cossies, and PTE 880s***
You can see the mods in my sig. My idle A/F surges from 14.5 to 17.0 sometimes at idle and then will occasionally dip to 11.5 and comeback. Vaccum is around 12-13 and idle is around 950. Cruising AF is 14.5 and WOT it is 11.5 at 21psi on 91 Octane with zero knock.
Is it the Cosworths (stock valvetrain with stock rev limiter set) or my PTE 880 Injectors?
Is an 880 injector too much on stock ecu? I can only flash tune since there isn't a dyno closer than 5hrs. Injector duty cycle is 67%.
Lastly, any idea what what help this issue the most? 720-780cc Injectors or S1 Cams since this is an occasional problem with Cossies?
Like I said NO KNOCK. All you knowledgeable tuners please chime in. I never had this problem with the HKS cams but swapped to Cossies/50-trim/880s at once. I'm really leaning torwards the injectors.
I have KNOW knowledge of how to scale...it was tuned by a local fellow. HELP!
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Is it the Cosworths (stock valvetrain with stock rev limiter set) or my PTE 880 Injectors?
Is an 880 injector too much on stock ecu? I can only flash tune since there isn't a dyno closer than 5hrs. Injector duty cycle is 67%.
Lastly, any idea what what help this issue the most? 720-780cc Injectors or S1 Cams since this is an occasional problem with Cossies?
Like I said NO KNOCK. All you knowledgeable tuners please chime in. I never had this problem with the HKS cams but swapped to Cossies/50-trim/880s at once. I'm really leaning torwards the injectors.
I have KNOW knowledge of how to scale...it was tuned by a local fellow. HELP!
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Nov 28, 2007, 10:06 AM
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I run an ET 50 trim/PTE880/HKS 272/272 (+1.5, -1). During initial warm up I see the AFRs swing way rich and lean in closed loop. Once the car is warmed up, I fluctuate between 14.3 and 15.6. There are some very rare patches of the AFRs going up to as much as 17.4 for an instant but no knock.
LTFT_low, mid, and high 100 on Evoscan. I've played around with the injector latencies, and found that the settings below work best for me at 41-42 psi on my FPR. (Stock Maf scaling values)
4.69 3.624
7.03 1.992
11.72 0.888
14.06 0.648
16.41 0.480
18.68 0.360
These settings were used to compensate for my car running rich when lifting after a high load situation to a stop/coast nearly stalling my car. Car doesn't do that anymore.
What do your LTFTs look like? I found that I can play with latencies within a certain range before my LTFTs are affected. I've gone lower on the latencies, but found my STFTs too high. And have gone higher and found that my car stubles more when I lift, although the STFTs look more in line.
I hope this helps. I'm no expert, but found these settings after doing two 30 minute logs per day going to and from work, and experimenting with different settings.
End results is the car runs better for me, now.
LTFT_low, mid, and high 100 on Evoscan. I've played around with the injector latencies, and found that the settings below work best for me at 41-42 psi on my FPR. (Stock Maf scaling values)
4.69 3.624
7.03 1.992
11.72 0.888
14.06 0.648
16.41 0.480
18.68 0.360
These settings were used to compensate for my car running rich when lifting after a high load situation to a stop/coast nearly stalling my car. Car doesn't do that anymore.
What do your LTFTs look like? I found that I can play with latencies within a certain range before my LTFTs are affected. I've gone lower on the latencies, but found my STFTs too high. And have gone higher and found that my car stubles more when I lift, although the STFTs look more in line.
I hope this helps. I'm no expert, but found these settings after doing two 30 minute logs per day going to and from work, and experimenting with different settings.
End results is the car runs better for me, now.
Nov 28, 2007, 10:18 AM
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Awesome....the same thing u mentioned is what i'm experiencing. Can u pm me your email so I can have u take a look at my rom? Any dyno numbers on your set-up?
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Nov 28, 2007, 10:36 AM
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https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=207924
These are some notes a friend of mine jotted down from a thread. (sorry, I don't know who I'm quoting.)
1. Choose a global setting (ECUFlash injector scaling number)
2. Log trims at idle and cruise
3. If trims are roughly the same, but positive, then you need to increase your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to lower your injector scaling number.
4. If both trims are roughly the same, but negative, then you need to descrease your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to raise your injector scaling number.
5. If idle trim is more positive than cruise trim, then you need to increase the dead time, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to increase the latency value.
6. If the idle trim is less positive than the cruise trim, you need to decrease the deadtime, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to decrease the latency value.
Note: After #5 or #6, you may need to readjust #1 accordingly.
Note 2: #5 and #6 implicitly answer ludikraut's questions about affecting idle and cruise trims. Basically, let's say that the IPW is 1ms at idle and 2ms at cruise. If you adjust the deadtime to add 100us (.1 ms), then you are affecting the idle fueling 10% and the cruise fueling 5%.
Nov 28, 2007, 11:46 AM
#9
1. First and foremost, make sure your breather hose is connected. This is the hose that goes from your valve cover to your turbo intake pipe. If that isn't connected, stop here, connect it, and re-log your trims.
2. If you breather hose is connected, then all your have to do is step #5, then step #1 that madsheen quoted. You may have to do a little change at a time. I can do it all in one change with some simple math, but I wouldn't recommend that to someone not familiar with what's going on.
I don't want to give exact numbes here, especially if your issue is just your breather hose or something else like not logging your trims correctly, etc, but if you really have a +5 and -5 (for LTFT Lo and LTFT Mid respectively) after proper idling/cruising/logging, then I'm guessing that roughly .200 adding to latency and then increasing injector scaling by 20 % would fix it. Keep in mind, that you would also have to retune your fuel maps for WOT if you did this, since your adjusting your injector scaling.
Eric
Last edited by l2r99gst; Nov 28, 2007 at 11:48 AM.
Nov 28, 2007, 01:11 PM
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MadMsheen wanted to mention that the Injector scaling is set to 750.
There's an entire thread dedicated to that topic.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=207924
These are some notes a friend of mine jotted down from a thread. (sorry, I don't know who I'm quoting.)
1. Choose a global setting (ECUFlash injector scaling number)
2. Log trims at idle and cruise
3. If trims are roughly the same, but positive, then you need to increase your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to lower your injector scaling number.
4. If both trims are roughly the same, but negative, then you need to descrease your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to raise your injector scaling number.
5. If idle trim is more positive than cruise trim, then you need to increase the dead time, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to increase the latency value.
6. If the idle trim is less positive than the cruise trim, you need to decrease the deadtime, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to decrease the latency value.
Note: After #5 or #6, you may need to readjust #1 accordingly.
Note 2: #5 and #6 implicitly answer ludikraut's questions about affecting idle and cruise trims. Basically, let's say that the IPW is 1ms at idle and 2ms at cruise. If you adjust the deadtime to add 100us (.1 ms), then you are affecting the idle fueling 10% and the cruise fueling 5%.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=207924
These are some notes a friend of mine jotted down from a thread. (sorry, I don't know who I'm quoting.)
1. Choose a global setting (ECUFlash injector scaling number)
2. Log trims at idle and cruise
3. If trims are roughly the same, but positive, then you need to increase your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to lower your injector scaling number.
4. If both trims are roughly the same, but negative, then you need to descrease your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to raise your injector scaling number.
5. If idle trim is more positive than cruise trim, then you need to increase the dead time, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to increase the latency value.
6. If the idle trim is less positive than the cruise trim, you need to decrease the deadtime, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to decrease the latency value.
Note: After #5 or #6, you may need to readjust #1 accordingly.
Note 2: #5 and #6 implicitly answer ludikraut's questions about affecting idle and cruise trims. Basically, let's say that the IPW is 1ms at idle and 2ms at cruise. If you adjust the deadtime to add 100us (.1 ms), then you are affecting the idle fueling 10% and the cruise fueling 5%.
Nov 28, 2007, 03:17 PM
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I meant on these settings the injector scaling should be set to 750. Sorry, I wasn't at a laptop, and my friend kindly stepped in for me.
I run an ET 50 trim/PTE880/HKS 272/272 (+1.5, -1). During initial warm up I see the AFRs swing way rich and lean in closed loop. Once the car is warmed up, I fluctuate between 14.3 and 15.6. There are some very rare patches of the AFRs going up to as much as 17.4 for an instant but no knock.
LTFT_low, mid, and high 100 on Evoscan. I've played around with the injector latencies, and found that the settings below work best for me at 41-42 psi on my FPR. (Stock Maf scaling values)
4.69 3.624
7.03 1.992
11.72 0.888
14.06 0.648
16.41 0.480
18.68 0.360
These settings were used to compensate for my car running rich when lifting after a high load situation to a stop/coast nearly stalling my car. Car doesn't do that anymore.
What do your LTFTs look like? I found that I can play with latencies within a certain range before my LTFTs are affected. I've gone lower on the latencies, but found my STFTs too high. And have gone higher and found that my car stubles more when I lift, although the STFTs look more in line.
I hope this helps. I'm no expert, but found these settings after doing two 30 minute logs per day going to and from work, and experimenting with different settings.
End results is the car runs better for me, now.
LTFT_low, mid, and high 100 on Evoscan. I've played around with the injector latencies, and found that the settings below work best for me at 41-42 psi on my FPR. (Stock Maf scaling values)
4.69 3.624
7.03 1.992
11.72 0.888
14.06 0.648
16.41 0.480
18.68 0.360
These settings were used to compensate for my car running rich when lifting after a high load situation to a stop/coast nearly stalling my car. Car doesn't do that anymore.
What do your LTFTs look like? I found that I can play with latencies within a certain range before my LTFTs are affected. I've gone lower on the latencies, but found my STFTs too high. And have gone higher and found that my car stubles more when I lift, although the STFTs look more in line.
I hope this helps. I'm no expert, but found these settings after doing two 30 minute logs per day going to and from work, and experimenting with different settings.
End results is the car runs better for me, now.
Nov 29, 2007, 03:51 PM
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I've noticed that too. My Cams aren't really that large, but during initial start up, when the car is in open loop, my car idles better without as much fluctuation when my lower load/idle cells are richer.
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