ITP

Is it possible to lock the Evo ecu using Ecuflash? Ecutek does it. How can we? Long story short. Every time a car that I have tuned goes to this one shop in town for dyno, my tunes always get ripped. And that's just not cool.

tephra

iTrader: (6)

change your init code to something other than 1?

or better idea, re-wire your ODB plug to delivery 40,000 volts :P hehe

or just don't go to the sucky dyno place

Jameson_IXMR

iTrader: (5)

IMO locking the ECU is not cool. What do you mean they get "ripped"? Like copied?

codgi

iTrader: (22)

Locking won't do much. There are already documented ways to get around the basic locks most people put on the ECU. IF they want the tune that bad they will know these ways/find out.

Best bet is to just warn your customers away from that dyno.

ITP

Duelly noted.

The tuner at this shop likes to pull other tuners work if he can. And what he does with them I don't know. It's the principle. I don't pull other tuners work when people come to me from other places.

The reason that people go there is bacause this dyno is the highest reading one on town.

codgi

iTrader: (22)

Explain the situation to your customers and just tell them not to allow the owner to connect to the ECU. There is no reason why they have to connect to the ECU when putting a car on the dyno (some people that don't understand dynos might think its ok especially if its their first time).

Or have some kind of agreement with them whereby if they take it there and you find it it gets stolen then the next retune is going to cost twice as much or something .

I think you might be lucky whereby you at least seem to know of one set place where your work is getting stolen. I don't think most tuners on here are that lucky .

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

You just wait... that guy is probably starting a library with notes from each car he dyno's. Of course with your tunes saved, the map etc.

Then in a few months he'll be offering dyno tuning...
With those customers graphs as the advertising and then, well... he'll already have the tunes that got them there.

Now we all know each car is different, and this method won't get him far if he's not much of a tuner. But if he's resourceful... he can just look from one similar tune to the next, use it as a base... and tweak the overall tune from it.

If I had to guess THAT, is the reason behind the copying.

A lazy dyno tech trying to become a tuner.

Sad part is there isn't much you can do... although it is a pretty crappy human that does that sort of thing.

Now you can kind of understand why some people scramble tune, and ecutek locked things up. It sucks when your work gets taken. These are the extremes of the situation that are unfair to the tuner, whereas in general locking up maps is extremely unfair to the customer.

Sounds like it might be time for you to go settle the dispute with the shop.
Its not your customers... its the dyno place.

Or tell your cusomters the dyno shop is stealing their tuned maps they paid for to use on other cars. Tell them if the guy plugs in, they should ask for what they paid for the tune since he's taking it to resell.

THAT, will nip it in the A real quick.

voidhawk

iTrader: (20)

As a tuner you get paid for rendering a service, there is no exchange of property involved. The settings (a.k.a. "tune") on your customer's ECU do not belong to you, and you have no business trying to prevent people from accessing it (whether it be the customer or some other person the customer allows access). It is also (as codgi pointed out) impractical.

codgi

iTrader: (22)

I don't think void is saying that it is cool to get the stuff stolen. Just more that the way hes trying to do it isn't the correct way (even though to be fair there really is no correct way ).

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

Well just changing the init code will stop it unless he has the ECU unlocker on all the time. Even then anyone that allows him to hook up to their car should no better. This thread is kind of pointless because the person probably knows about EvoM and tuning via ECUflash (obviously) and will probably read the thread.



P.s. Voidhawk is actually pretty cool, so your comments arent based on what you know but rather what you think you know. Please keep them to yourself. I mean anynone that has a sign in name that uses a reference to one of the greatest sci fi chronicles ever cant be all bad.

voidhawk

iTrader: (20)

So based on your sophisticated argument, it would also be wrong to reveal my alignment settings to another person, since that would be stealing from Robi who set them up? How about the secret of how to gap your spark plugs right? Is it okay for a shop to install a lock on my valve cover because they don't want me to tell people what setting the cam gears are at? It's unrealistic of any person who changes settings on my car (hard or soft) to claim they now can control what I do with my own property. It's my car, my ECU, and my map - I paid for it, I can do whatever I want with it.

If any given tuner really wants to stop people from showing "his" map to other people, he would have to make the customer sign an "End User License Agreement" before installing the tune. Of course, this would make a lot of people say "no thanks", and it would be completely unenforceable because the tuner himself circumvented mitsu's safeguards by hacking the ECU in the first place. Impractical, and more than a little hypocritical.

I'm sorry if you find this offensive, but I don't see any valid argument for tuners complaining that their maps are being "ripped", as long as it happens with the consent of the person who owns the car. In this case, it sounds like the owners were not aware of what's going on though, so I commend him for wanting to protect his customers (if that is what he was trying to do ...). I don't think locking the ECU is the right way to do that though, simply letting his customers know about what's going on might be a more effective way to go.

John, Dwayne - thanks guys, it's cool ... we're all adults here . It's an old debate and I know I probably won't convince anybody to change sides, I just wanted to point out a different perspective.

honki24

iTrader: (23)

Absofrigginlutely. Good form. I agree 100%... although I don't see anything wrong w/ *trying* to lock your tune. Hey, if you don't want others to see it easily, then go for it. Just don't get mad if resourceful people can still figure it out and learn from your tune. I mean... aren't we doing that with Mitsu's proprietary work when we hack deeper and deeper into the ecu, learning new subroutines and cross-referencing logics? We learn how it works and apply it to our tuning methods. lol... tuning really isn't all that magic in the first place. Unless you are some mage with mivec or some other poorly understood parameter... almost any of us can do the same thing. I think selling tunes in the first place is questionable... I prefer to tell my "customers" that they may pay me anything they wish, should they decide that my services were worth their money. There have been times that it has caused "charity", and there are times that it has been very profitable... but nonetheless while I may be pretty good at it, there is always someone else who can likely tune these things just as well. I am honored when people choose me, and flattered if others would like to steal my tunes. I don't see it being such a big problem to just spread the word in your area that this dyno opperator may be selling stolen tunes and that if the lancer drivers in your area want the original and better support, then they need to come to you.

At any rate, enjoy. Tuning is fun. Don't be too upset if someone finds your work worth copying... its just money.

voidhawk

iTrader: (20)

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Anybody with a basic understanding of AFR/boost/timing, a laptop, a tactrix cable, and a wideband can generate a good tune given enough time. That's why I don't think any specific map is so unique that people should claim ownership of it. Just because I realized that wheels work best when round, doesn't mean the next guy can't come to that same conclusion himself .

The big difference I see between a bought tune and a self-tune is that I pay for access to the tuners experience, which means he can accomplish in a day (or 15 minutes) what would take me a week or more. That's what I'm (gladly) paying for. The end result will be no different than anybody else's, you just get there quicker with less hassle and less risk to your hardware.

Erik@MIL.SPEC

iTrader: (94)

The best thing might be to phone the guy up and ask why he's doing it. Maybe suggest that you can host an ECUflash party, where you'll teach him and all his customers about the ins and outs of ECUflash.

mplspilot

iTrader: (7)

Who cares if they get ripped? You can't really apply the same tune for different cars. And as it's been pointed out it ain't rocket science or magic. Just make the cars go fast and customers will come. And if someone chooses a tuner based on how high their dyno reads - they are an idiot and you need to educate them on that.

Buschur has a low reading dyno, you think he has a lack of customers?