About to File for Divorce from the Factory ECU . . .
May 23, 2008, 07:49 AM
#31
Ted,
Have you checked the integrity of the MAF lately? Is the screen secure still?
I think the biggest issue with running larger turbos on the stock ECU really isn't the stock ECU, but the stock MAF. The position of the MAF pre-turbo just lends itself to a bunch of problems when upgrading to a turbo with vastly different flow characteristics.
I remember years ago when I upgraded to one of the first dual BB garret turbos on my DSM. It was the AGP L2R, which was basically a GT3076-12 with a small .48 hotside to make it spool super quick. Anyway, I remember right after installing that turbo, I would get the RPM dip and stalling at idle, especially when clutching in to come to a stop. I used DSMLink, which used the stock ECU, but had a lot of new code/hacks, etc, in similar ways that ECUFlash is being developed now.
Through several logs and several posts of others on the DSMLink boards, it was found that the airflow of the larger turbos, especially the BB turbos that kept spinning longer after releasing the throttle, messed with the airflow readings through the MAF. The DSMLink creators were going to make a MAF clamp of some sort to fix this so that at idle or closing throttle from a cruise, a certain MAF Hz would be maintained. I don't know if anything was ever developed since I then bought an Evo and came to these boards.
To make a long story short, I replaced my stock MAF with a GM MAF in blow-through (with the MAFT) and that issue was eliminated completely.
So, my moral of the story is to simply hang in there. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with the stock ECU. There may be other issues that you need to look into. There may be more patches or settings that you can change to help the stock MAF in situations like this. It all depends on what your criteria are (emissions, time, cost, etc), but in my opinion, I think the stock ECU is a great alternative to the standalones, getting better every day.
Eric
Have you checked the integrity of the MAF lately? Is the screen secure still?
I think the biggest issue with running larger turbos on the stock ECU really isn't the stock ECU, but the stock MAF. The position of the MAF pre-turbo just lends itself to a bunch of problems when upgrading to a turbo with vastly different flow characteristics.
I remember years ago when I upgraded to one of the first dual BB garret turbos on my DSM. It was the AGP L2R, which was basically a GT3076-12 with a small .48 hotside to make it spool super quick. Anyway, I remember right after installing that turbo, I would get the RPM dip and stalling at idle, especially when clutching in to come to a stop. I used DSMLink, which used the stock ECU, but had a lot of new code/hacks, etc, in similar ways that ECUFlash is being developed now.
Through several logs and several posts of others on the DSMLink boards, it was found that the airflow of the larger turbos, especially the BB turbos that kept spinning longer after releasing the throttle, messed with the airflow readings through the MAF. The DSMLink creators were going to make a MAF clamp of some sort to fix this so that at idle or closing throttle from a cruise, a certain MAF Hz would be maintained. I don't know if anything was ever developed since I then bought an Evo and came to these boards.
To make a long story short, I replaced my stock MAF with a GM MAF in blow-through (with the MAFT) and that issue was eliminated completely.
So, my moral of the story is to simply hang in there. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with the stock ECU. There may be other issues that you need to look into. There may be more patches or settings that you can change to help the stock MAF in situations like this. It all depends on what your criteria are (emissions, time, cost, etc), but in my opinion, I think the stock ECU is a great alternative to the standalones, getting better every day.
Eric
Last edited by l2r99gst; May 23, 2008 at 08:03 AM.
May 23, 2008, 08:21 AM
#37
P-u-leeze don't make me scream. LOL
May 23, 2008, 08:40 AM
#38
... offer all the available XML files in various stages of modifications, and compile a manual with one sheet on each table/function with an explanation of how it is defined/calculated, what it does, how it works, and with an example of factory and typical upgraded setting. This would go a long way toward reducing headaches for both developers and users alike.
The only issue I see with this is that there are tons of tables and single cell references that are being found every day and/or that may never be added to the XML files.
For example, when I was doing research on the MAF scaling table, I defined the 1-cell table for the MAF adder value, which is 140 decimal. This is a value that the ECU adds to the value in the MAF scaling table when doing it's calculations. This is defined in my XML, but not in any others. Does it need to be? Will it just confuse people more if it were?
If all of the tables and cells were defined in the XML files for each ROM, there would be easily 10 times more than what we see now (completely rough guess, to prove a point). But I do agree with you on defining what is there and what is mostly used. I think it would be very difficult, at this point in time, to keep up with the rest, though. Every patch created adds new definitions/tables and every new disassembly/discovery finds new tables/defintions that must be tested and validated before defined and put in to the XMLs.
It would definitely be a huge endeavor, but well worth it in the long run.
Eric
May 23, 2008, 09:01 AM
#39
How about you provide me with what I need, and I'll just send you a Paypal payment for your trouble? I'd much rather do this than restart the arduous process of piecemealing all of these things together, only to end up right where I am now. I'd rather invest my time in tuning the car instead of searching, reading, cutting, pasting, and wondering if it's working correctly. As of now, there is no indication that it isn't working correctly, and I'll bet I'm not the only one running around with a corrupted ROM.
Let me know . . .
May 23, 2008, 09:14 AM
#40
Of course it would. If it seems huge now, what will it be like in another year? Imagine if you were coming into this from out of the blue, faced with countless hours upon hours of searching and reading, when your only goal is to be able to effectively have what you need to tune the car. Without localized, organized information, the growing number of discussions and posts are slowly causing the important fragments to gradually descend into convolution, which increases the load upon external support to provide assistance.
May 23, 2008, 11:57 AM
#42
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If it seems huge now, what will it be like in another year? Imagine if you were coming into this from out of the blue, faced with countless hours upon hours of searching and reading, when your only goal is to be able to effectively have what you need to tune the car. Without localized, organized information, the growing number of discussions and posts are slowly causing the important fragments to gradually descend into convolution, which increases the load upon external support to provide assistance.
May 23, 2008, 12:41 PM
#43
You are right ... there is a ton of info and it is a little confusing. But, most of us here are helpful and will post links to the threads we know when people have questions.
but, if someone starts a Wiki on the subject I'd be happy to contribute. We have to keep it objective though ... it will be useless if it becomes a boost vs timing debate.
but, if someone starts a Wiki on the subject I'd be happy to contribute. We have to keep it objective though ... it will be useless if it becomes a boost vs timing debate.
May 23, 2008, 12:45 PM
#44
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^^Thats a good idea. Although Im not a big fan of something that can be edited by anyone and everyone. That is how Wiki works, correct? There is about a dozen people on this board (most in this thread) that I trust for info like this.