Do “reputable” tuners use lean spool disable
Jun 16, 2008, 07:09 AM
#61
Evolving Member
I, for one, have the utmost respect for the guys at ecuflash forum especially razor, tephra, mrfred, johnbradley, jcsbanks and others. I am not doubting their abilities. I am also going to turn off lean spool and see the results. Just wanted to know both sides of the story. I am in no way advocating one or the other.
Didn't want to mention, but guys like mellon and jcsbanks like to keep lean spool on. Hoping they could chime in with their reasons or if its just personal preference.
Didn't want to mention, but guys like mellon and jcsbanks like to keep lean spool on. Hoping they could chime in with their reasons or if its just personal preference.
Jun 16, 2008, 06:28 PM
#62
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sorry, but you are trying to reinvent the wheel here. Mivec has been done. Mivec on a Mitsubishi is extremely easy to tune. The concept tuning wise is old news, since Hondata started tuning IVTEC with Kpro. On a EVO is even easier, since it doesn't have an individual timing/fuel map every 10 degrees of cam rotation.
back to topic, as for lean spool.. I using the stock setup. I have not come across a reason to use it. I can control my fuel perfectly and effectively.
Jun 16, 2008, 08:03 PM
#64
I think that one of the best examples of "heat soak" would be road race during the summer in a hot weather like Cali, Texas of Florida (among others). Road Race puts a lof of stress and abuse on a car for several minutes. I know that razorlab does Road Race I am not sure if he runs during the summertime but if he runs with lean spool disable on a summer Road Race and his car has not explode yet then I am not sure if heat soak is that bad for lean spool disable cars. Maybe he can shime in and post some comments. I will make some more test especially rowing through gears just to be sure.
I leave lean spool enabled. If you keep the fuel map semi rich and keep lean spool enabled. During a heat soak condition the ECU will not "enable" the lean spool condition and your fuel will be alot richer to combat the "heat"
for those with lean spool DISABLED, the car will continue to run a high
A/F and the car will have to knock inorder to start working with the low octane fuel maps to keep heat in check.
Better to have inconsistant A/F during spool up with 0 knock, then consistant A/F with 3-6 Knock during certain occasions.
Sure you may not get consistant A/F during spool up, sometimes 11.3 others 12.2.
try this experiment, disable your lean spool. Set your a/f around 12.0 and do 5 back to back 3rd gear WOT runs, 2,000-7,000RPM in hot wheater 75 degrees F or so.
Next, enable lean spool with a lot richer fuel, 1 point or so. with same 6 back to back WOT runs. look at all the data determine what you should follow.
for those with lean spool DISABLED, the car will continue to run a high
A/F and the car will have to knock inorder to start working with the low octane fuel maps to keep heat in check.
Better to have inconsistant A/F during spool up with 0 knock, then consistant A/F with 3-6 Knock during certain occasions.
Sure you may not get consistant A/F during spool up, sometimes 11.3 others 12.2.
try this experiment, disable your lean spool. Set your a/f around 12.0 and do 5 back to back 3rd gear WOT runs, 2,000-7,000RPM in hot wheater 75 degrees F or so.
Next, enable lean spool with a lot richer fuel, 1 point or so. with same 6 back to back WOT runs. look at all the data determine what you should follow.
Jun 16, 2008, 08:31 PM
#65
I think that one of the best examples of "heat soak" would be road race during the summer in a hot weather like Cali, Texas of Florida (among others). Road Race puts a lof of stress and abuse on a car for several minutes. I know that razorlab does Road Race I am not sure if he runs during the summertime but if he runs with lean spool disable on a summer Road Race and his car has not explode yet then I am not sure if heat soak is that bad for lean spool disable cars. Maybe he can shime in and post some comments. I will make some more test especially rowing through gears just to be sure.
One of them, a Evo 9, currently holds #1 in class this season in NASA Time Trials, and just broke the track record by one full second at Thunderhill raceway. It is a full weight street Evo daily driver / weekend track warrior.
Another, a Evo 8, Won the NASA Time Trials season championship last season in class, broke a couple track records on the way there. It is also a full weight daily driver and has been 100% reliable the whole time.
I also tuned another Evo 9 that won 2nd place in street class at the last Redline Time Attack at buttonwillow. Full weight street daily driver.
A couple other NASA Time Trial Evos and a bunch of weekend track ******. All with lean spool off.
That said, all of the above are tuned with the track in mind, which is a whole different ball game then the drag strip or the street...
Last edited by razorlab; Jun 16, 2008 at 08:33 PM.
Jun 16, 2008, 09:16 PM
#66
Account Disabled
maybe they tune conservative with it disabled, 11.1 or so. So in that case it wouldn't matter if a heat soak condition happened since enough fuel would be present to combate knock. All I know is I have seen a drop from 11.7 to 10.0 without any knocksum nor octane flag changing.
it was like the cars ECU algorithm new a problem of knock would come if it didn't add fuel caused from extreme heat and heatsoak after multiple WOT runs. This happened a couple times.
do any of you guys with lean spool disabled tune with high a/f, 11.5 or greater and run it lots? or do you all tune it for 11.0 or some rich ratio?
it was like the cars ECU algorithm new a problem of knock would come if it didn't add fuel caused from extreme heat and heatsoak after multiple WOT runs. This happened a couple times.
do any of you guys with lean spool disabled tune with high a/f, 11.5 or greater and run it lots? or do you all tune it for 11.0 or some rich ratio?
I think that one of the best examples of "heat soak" would be road race during the summer in a hot weather like Cali, Texas of Florida (among others). Road Race puts a lof of stress and abuse on a car for several minutes. I know that razorlab does Road Race I am not sure if he runs during the summertime but if he runs with lean spool disable on a summer Road Race and his car has not explode yet then I am not sure if heat soak is that bad for lean spool disable cars. Maybe he can shime in and post some comments. I will make some more test especially rowing through gears just to be sure.
Jun 17, 2008, 01:01 AM
#67
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The MIVEC discussions have been off-topic, but......
Amak87, MIVEC is the technology. You dont add or subtract MIVEC, you add or subtract inlet cam timing. If I said I was adding more or less 4G63 I would sound silly.
But I would not discount what he is saying. With more agressive cams you can tend to require more inlet cam advance in the high rpm ranges, especially as boost increases. I have done extensive testing not just on the EVO9, but on many other cars with continuously variable cam timing (various Honda's, R35 GTR, 350Z, etc...) and there is no hard and fast rule as to what cam timing anyone should run. It all depends on your mods and your requirements. Also, altering the inlet cam timing has a dramatic effect on emissions. I have had experience here in Aust. where a stock standard Evo9 fails drive-cycle emissions testing, but a correctly re-tuned (especially in the cam timing) ECU passes by miles.
If you are having trouble with just setting up the inlet cam, try adding in continuously variable exhaust cam and have some fun, it really sorts the men from the boys.
Amak87, MIVEC is the technology. You dont add or subtract MIVEC, you add or subtract inlet cam timing. If I said I was adding more or less 4G63 I would sound silly.
But I would not discount what he is saying. With more agressive cams you can tend to require more inlet cam advance in the high rpm ranges, especially as boost increases. I have done extensive testing not just on the EVO9, but on many other cars with continuously variable cam timing (various Honda's, R35 GTR, 350Z, etc...) and there is no hard and fast rule as to what cam timing anyone should run. It all depends on your mods and your requirements. Also, altering the inlet cam timing has a dramatic effect on emissions. I have had experience here in Aust. where a stock standard Evo9 fails drive-cycle emissions testing, but a correctly re-tuned (especially in the cam timing) ECU passes by miles.
If you are having trouble with just setting up the inlet cam, try adding in continuously variable exhaust cam and have some fun, it really sorts the men from the boys.
Jun 17, 2008, 06:23 PM
#68
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The MIVEC discussions have been off-topic, but......
Amak87, MIVEC is the technology. You dont add or subtract MIVEC, you add or subtract inlet cam timing. If I said I was adding more or less 4G63 I would sound silly.
But I would not discount what he is saying. With more agressive cams you can tend to require more inlet cam advance in the high rpm ranges, especially as boost increases. I have done extensive testing not just on the EVO9, but on many other cars with continuously variable cam timing (various Honda's, R35 GTR, 350Z, etc...) and there is no hard and fast rule as to what cam timing anyone should run. It all depends on your mods and your requirements. Also, altering the inlet cam timing has a dramatic effect on emissions. I have had experience here in Aust. where a stock standard Evo9 fails drive-cycle emissions testing, but a correctly re-tuned (especially in the cam timing) ECU passes by miles.
If you are having trouble with just setting up the inlet cam, try adding in continuously variable exhaust cam and have some fun, it really sorts the men from the boys.
Amak87, MIVEC is the technology. You dont add or subtract MIVEC, you add or subtract inlet cam timing. If I said I was adding more or less 4G63 I would sound silly.
But I would not discount what he is saying. With more agressive cams you can tend to require more inlet cam advance in the high rpm ranges, especially as boost increases. I have done extensive testing not just on the EVO9, but on many other cars with continuously variable cam timing (various Honda's, R35 GTR, 350Z, etc...) and there is no hard and fast rule as to what cam timing anyone should run. It all depends on your mods and your requirements. Also, altering the inlet cam timing has a dramatic effect on emissions. I have had experience here in Aust. where a stock standard Evo9 fails drive-cycle emissions testing, but a correctly re-tuned (especially in the cam timing) ECU passes by miles.
If you are having trouble with just setting up the inlet cam, try adding in continuously variable exhaust cam and have some fun, it really sorts the men from the boys.
And I wish I could play around with my exhaust cam, I will be getting a adjustable soon enough. mo' top end.
Jul 1, 2008, 04:44 PM
#70
A little bump for this thread.
Here is a log with AFR and TPS of the third lap of a Evo at the Redline Time Attack in Utah this weekend.
This is with lean spool off.
Notice how rock solid the AFR is the whole lap at WOT.
above is a zoomed in section of the whole sessions log, which looks like this:
It was very hot out and 4300F elevation. You can see how "extreme" the temps where by looking at the intake temp and coolant temp plots. Coolant temp in the plot is halved. So 110 = 220F
Here is a log with AFR and TPS of the third lap of a Evo at the Redline Time Attack in Utah this weekend.
This is with lean spool off.
Notice how rock solid the AFR is the whole lap at WOT.
above is a zoomed in section of the whole sessions log, which looks like this:
It was very hot out and 4300F elevation. You can see how "extreme" the temps where by looking at the intake temp and coolant temp plots. Coolant temp in the plot is halved. So 110 = 220F
Sep 14, 2010, 06:28 AM
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hello all.
in conclusion, if i constantly live in an overheated environment with lots of humidity ( say between 25-35 degree celcius + over 70% humidity on average over the year) , is it advisable to desactivate lean spool or not? ?? ??? i m confused here !
in conclusion, if i constantly live in an overheated environment with lots of humidity ( say between 25-35 degree celcius + over 70% humidity on average over the year) , is it advisable to desactivate lean spool or not? ?? ??? i m confused here !
Sep 20, 2010, 06:14 PM
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Alot has been learned about "Lean Spool" over the last two years. I would look into the threads made by mrfred and others about Lean Spool. As it turns out, lean spool is a terrible name for this feature. It actually has to do with enrichment more then it has to do with enleanment.
I use to run with Lean Spool off. After the lean spool AFR maps were found, I found that lean spool is a great feature when used in moderation. The job of "Lean Spool" is to allow THE TUNER to make spool up areas a bit leaner and allow the ECU to ENRICHEN (not lean out!) the AFR depending on how long you on the throttle (aka, more enrichment for higher gears!).
Go LS !
I use to run with Lean Spool off. After the lean spool AFR maps were found, I found that lean spool is a great feature when used in moderation. The job of "Lean Spool" is to allow THE TUNER to make spool up areas a bit leaner and allow the ECU to ENRICHEN (not lean out!) the AFR depending on how long you on the throttle (aka, more enrichment for higher gears!).
Go LS !