94170008

I have seen a couple posts on this but could not find a dedicated thread and the MAFTpro forum section is a barren wasteland. I am new to ECU flash in terms of actually starting to use it and completely new to Evo scan. I have been on this board since 03' but just started a new profile because the password recovery function on evom wasn't working for me... I like my new handle better anyway.


How many of you have tried this (MAFTpro/ECUflash) and/or are currently running this?

What wideband are you using?

Have you tried the speed density function and target AFR in conjuntion with a wide band?

Do you still log in evo scan?

Are you using the it for boost control with the 3/5bar sensor?

Any draw backs or advantages to tuning speed density oposed to the MAF meter?

This is pretty much of a project/ hobby for me as well as a DD. Mods are pretty tame; 16g TME 10.5, Big IC, stock cat + muffler, 264 cams.

Thanks in advance for any opinions or experience offered.

PVD04

iTrader: (23)

I've been running MaftPro in speed density for over a year and a half. I'd recommend using MaftPro to switch over to speed density and use Ecuflash to tune. If you tune with MaftPro your changes will affect both fuel and timing which is less than ideal.

-Paul

dan l

iTrader: (3)

I haven't used speed density yet. I am still running through a GM maf and like it. I calibrated the sensor to read like stock and make all changes in ecu software.

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

3 here local to us that I know of using Pro, Lucas, myself, and Monty (silversicknlow) and one or 2 using just Translator in blowthrough.

Lucas and I started with 5 bars, he switched to a 3.5 since it works better and I have dreams of big boost still so I stayed with the 5 bar. Monty was tuned with the 3.5 to begin with.

We have set all of them up a little different to experiment and see if it makes any difference. Mine has the MAP sensor on the intake manifold next to the factory in that bung thats not tapped. Lucas and Monty have it with a 4" piece of tubing. Monty's is set with the input from the stock air meter for barometer and temp, where Lucas and I are just on the Pro. I have mine set for baro check every start and Lucas has his locked.

They all run and tune the same however

We all run AEM WB and no target AFR

Dustin is the only one I know of that is right now (asmodeus6) and he has it on and his fuel table with a giant Al block and the Pro does the work. Lean spool has to be off with target AFR's.

We use EvoScan, use the stock ECU to tune, and I dont think an air meter is the way to go if you are going to go through the trouble of wiring and setting up the Pro.

aaron@englishracing.net

EvoDan2004

iTrader: (94)

speed density??? this means no maf right?? what would you call the gm maf in the uicp before the throttle body?? or is that what your talking about?

laramie_05MR

iTrader: (20)

correct.
speed density=no maf
gm maf in the uicp= blow through system

thermaldynamics

iTrader: (5)

MAF in the UICP is called a blow through MAF. Typically done this way to run a vent to atmosphere "blow off valve" because the venting action happens before the MAF measures the flow rate so you dont run into an overly rich condition like between shifts or on/off throttle.

94170008

Yeah, thats one of the benifits...Ditch the MAF completely. For no other reason than it seems like a good idea and it makes my intake plumbing nice and neat.

Thanks for the replys, seems consistant with what I have read sofar. For a reasonable amount of cash it sounds like an awesome way to keep the car completely MA state emissions and obd2 complient without any tuning limitaitons.

Do seasonal climate changes F with it to much?/ Any one know if the target AFR function can deal with it? I read PVOD4's post saying as long as the base tune is close it works well... What is the range of varience you think it can handle?

Any one using Innovate WB's?

Where do you put the IAT sensor, before the turbo, or after?

Do 8's have lean spool or just 9's?

thermaldynamics

iTrader: (5)

I run an LC-1. I like it. No gripes. Logworks is neat software as well from Innovate.

Not sure what this is worth but https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=325408

94170008

[QUOTE=thermaldynamics;5897201]I run an LC-1. I like it. No gripes. Logworks is neat software as well from Innovate.

Wow. There is a really crazy WB brand fight on that link! Good stuff, I'm not sure who's calibrated lab gas is better, Innovate's or Zeitronix's...ECUflash, Maftpro and Evoscan all support both so it may just come down to price.

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

IAT is after the turbo on my car and lucas' in the UICP, Monty's of course would have to be pre turbo.

8's and 9's both have lean spool.

PVD04

iTrader: (23)

With the closed loop A/F control, if your entire map is tuned to ~11.0:1 across the entire RPM range and a fuel or temperature change causes it to go to 11.5 or even 12.0:1 the closed loop can bring it back to 11.0:1. It has trouble with bringing erratic A/F ratios back to a consistant A/F ratio.

My AIT sensor is in my UICP about 6" before the throttle body. Seems to work ok there.

I have disabled the lean spool as it helped a bit with tuning throttle transitions with the MaftPro.

ecuflasher

iTrader: (1)

Is it easy to get speed density working with the MAFT Pro? I read somewhere in another thread that it is very difficult and also, any change in hardware requires a complete remapping.

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

The initial setup (if you have never used a MAFT PRO before) is daunting because not a lot of it will make sense at first. (The settings can be confusing) However, the full throttle forums are of great benefit. And once you start toying with it, it will be easy.

As mentioned I run the A/F tracking because I am a lazy bastard. I do this because I don't have time to constantly tweak and move things around. Honestly~ nor do I want to. The good news is, it works. WELL. I'm running a LC-1 WB. I don't use evoscan. I don't use Pro to log either. I use logworks. Its what I'm used to and I like so its what gets used.

My setup is a little different from others, I'm using a JDM map sensor in its original location, + the GM AIT about 2" from the TB. PTT is not being used on my car. But its something I may try. I just have other things on the list higher up the scale. I drive this car EVERY single day. And I have no problems.

One thing is for ABSOLUTE CERTAIN... if you are going to use AF tracking, LEAN SPOOL MUST BE OFF OR YOUR CAR WILL GO INSANE. If you would like to use PTT as well to completely not have to really tune the car at all... the car must be forced to stay in open loop. Bust out your open loop load table and start typing. (I haven't done this yet as my car was tuned perfectly pre-maft pro)

The one thing I noticed is you can pretty much toss your airflow readings out the window. (logging from the ecu) As its only seeing, what pro is telling it to see to distribute fueling.

The other aspect of AF tracking + no maf is no more AF variance between gears. If you tune in third, 4th and 5th will not be subsequently richer, while 1st is lean. If your 5th gear makes you feel like getting out and pushing... this will fix it.


All of my base fueling adjustments are done in ecuflash. Maftpro does not alter fuel per rpm, or anywhere. Its all in ECUflash. Timing is all done in ecuflash.

All Pro does on my car is AF track and emulate speed density. IF YOU ARE USING AF TRACKING BEWARE THAT YOUR ECU CANNOT RICHEN THE MIXTURE TO EXTINGUISH KNOCK. Your fuel tables become a colored grid. Flash the lo/hi the same. It isn't going to save you. Your timing table NEEDS to be RIGHT. If you are in the habit of running it to the edge with timing YOU WILL BLOW YOUR MOTOR UP. Small amounts of knock will cause a 'run' and it will keep knocking. Make your lo timing table 5* lower than your hi until you are SURE the car won't knock its ***** off in varying gears and weather conditions.

If you are using AF tracking without a knock lite of some sort (Tephra's CEL patch is a minimum requirement) you are going to be heading for trouble. As a random knock spurt at heavy throttle will lead into continuous and heavier knock.

You need to be able to see this stuff happening so you can get out of it.

Throttle response is great. All the quirky stuttery nonsense of the stock maf eliminated. Its a joy to drive.

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

I live in PA. At night it is sub 60*, sometimes cooler. During the day it can be 90+. Humidity ranges from - omg, to WTF!? I'm in a valley @ 1000ft above sea level. Weather is pretty random even this time of year.

What I've found for limitations on the AF Tracking so far. (I said I was lazy didn't I?) Is the wider range it needs to cover... the higher the gain needs set. If you want it to be able to correct a wide gap because your tune is garbage. Or wildly all over due to new parts, and no time... general lack of effort... etc. Flash a bland AF across most of the boosted sections. (So it doesn't have to think thru the load columns) And let it do the rest. I've run correction factors as high as 18%. And it still holds the AF I have dialed in within 2 or 3/10th's.

Bland AF map ex;

Some notes to explain.
-I am not running a stock turbo and it does not spool like one.
-I noticed a shift in ecu perceived load so my columns are shifted <--- to compensate.
-This map does a lot better than 18% correction. Obviously.
-Lean spool is OFF!
-It is not perfect. Hi load (gear or hill) low throttle still goes a bit rich. Other than that. It works fine.


Now what I've said pertains to fueling. Please keep in mind my all caps warning when it comes to timing. Or you will pay pay pay.