cky_bam_marg

iTrader: (3)

i know more people look on this forum then on the alt fuels one so imma post this here.

my question is : what is currently being maxed out on my car right now the fuel pump or the 1000cc injectors?

The Facts:
im on an FP Red
RC 1000cc injectors
walbro 255 single fuel pump
im on e85

my afr at 29psi is 12.9 up toward redline and my idc is at 101.5%

so i wanted to know is being maxed out so i can upgrade it the injectors or the singel walbro fuel pump?

im leaning more towards the injectors but i need to know what they flow at? i know the fuel pump flows at 255LPH duh lol

so what are ur guys thoughts on all this? and what should i do?

tephra

iTrader: (6)

1000cc = 1L / min
4x1000cc = 4L/m
4L*60min = 240L/h

I would guess you need to upgrade BOTH the injectors AND fuel pump.

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

twin pumps and 1200s

cky_bam_marg

iTrader: (3)

well bother!!!!

that makes sense :-(

well how much further could the red really go? in everyones opinion how worth it is it to get both a double pumper and 1200 or higher cc injectors on a daily driven red? i do wanna get above 500hp and i believe that im right there knockin on its door with my current set up

Billy@EnglishRacing

iTrader: (18)

do inline 255's and 1200's

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

Negative.

Your AFRs need to be 11.8-12.0

If you are at 12.9 and IDC is now 101.5 with no chance of getting it back down toward 12.0... more fuel via pump, injectors or both is the only way. Added to this that you could then run more boost and make more power as well.

I would start with a double pumper on your 1000s. These will max somewhere near the high 480s or so generally, the 1200s will get you out over 500whp after that from my experience.

cky_bam_marg

iTrader: (3)

is there anything above 1200cc's thats reliable and a good injector? just kind of wanting the head room? or do u think 1200 wouls be good enough?

Most-Wanted

iTrader: (88)

as stated 1200cc's are fine and twin walbros or a big pump like a weldon or aeromotive. Weldons are better because they dont use plastic gears but are more expensive...

tephra

iTrader: (6)

The FACT is that YOU WILL NEED a better fuel pump system - regardless of whether you get new injectors or not.

If you upgrade the pump(s) you _might_ find that you don't need injectors.

cky_bam_marg

iTrader: (3)

well i guess i know what i need to do now!!!

and thanks for everyone and all there advice i greatly appreciate it

4drboost

iTrader: (4)

I would go with the 1200cc injectors and go from there, considering that its cheaper then a twin fuel pump setup.

derekste

iTrader: (9)

clearly you missed this:

1000cc = 1L / min
4x1000cc = 4L/m
4L*60min = 240L/h

240L/h is close to the limit of the pump. He could put 5000cc injectors on his car and this still wouldn't change the fact that the pump can't keep up.

fostytou

iTrader: (15)

I would say double pumper first for sure, then 1200 if you still don't have enough fuel or want to be safe. hopefully I'm going to be in the same boat as you next spring.

I'm talking over with a guy running 27psi (tru-boost though, so he has some taper) and on 93 he's maxing 69% IDC. I figured I'd need to upgrade injectors and pump at that time.

I'm already running ~108% warm weather IDCs on my 780cc/E85/stock IX turbo setup.

Not to be a jerk, but are you sure you have your injector size set correctly in evoscan?

logic

iTrader: (2)

(I'm posting this for completeness, since it looks like the original poster has made up his mind, but maybe this will help someone else going through the archives.)

Don't forget about fuel pressure adjustment. You can accommodate a weak pump with larger injectors (reduce fuel pressure, results in worse atomization) and you can accommodate small injectors with a stronger pump (increase fuel pressure, hope your pump can keep up at the new operating pressure).

Also, some folks look at that 255lph number and think it flows that all the time; it's a misconception that seems to be reflected in the first post. It doesn't. At 80PSI operating pressure (43psi base, 37psi boost), that pump is barely flowing 200lph, and it gets MUCH worse after that. Meanwhile, at 40psi, it's pushing around 284lph; nice if you're N/A, but that's only good for us at a Taco Bell drive-through.

In this case, at 29 psi of boost, you're looking at a max stock fuel pressure of 72.5 psi, which means you're only looking at around 230lph of actual flow from the Walbro, a good match for the 1000cc injectors (since you never want them to run at 100% IDC anyway). However, with an injector upgrade (FIC has injectors ranging from 1250cc to 1850cc now; it's a new design (non-Ford, non-Bosch) that isn't up on their website yet), you could pull your base fuel pressure down a bit. I wouldn't go any lower than about 32psi (resulting in about ~86% of the original effective flow rate), because of atomization concerns. At that level, 1250s would flow around 1075cc, so you have an effective flow rate of 258lph. At that base pressure, maximum fuel pressure would be 61psi, so you're looking at about 260lph of flow from the pump. Looks like a good match!

But, after all that, you're still maxing out at 260lph, while previously your pump was doing 230lph. A 30lph increase, to be sure, but not that impressive, and the atomization of fuel has suffered pretty dramatically. So, I'd view this purely as a stop-gap measure for a situation where you've clearly already maxed out the pump.

Also, consider that you can work this out in the other direction: increase your pumping capacity (as tephra suggested), and increase base fuel pressure to get more out of the injectors. This is a much more common approach, and is a heck of a lot easier to deal with, IMHO. Run a base fuel pressure of 55psi, and your 1000cc injectors suddenly start flowing like 1120s. Not a bad deal if your pumping configuration can handle it: you'd have a maximum fuel pressure of 84psi (in the 29psi of boost case), so you're looking at a Bosch -044 (or some other larger single-pump solution, like Aeromotive's A1000 or Eliminator) or a pair of Walbros at that point.

That was a little long-winded, and I don't know if I made a point. Hopefully this helps.

cky_bam_marg

iTrader: (3)

lol ya i did set them up right i have injector scaling down to a science now lol

also on my 720cc's i was getting around the same idc's as u on my stock turbo on e85, at least now i know i wasnt the only one lol

and logic

damn that was a nice little write up very useful and inlighting i still think imma go with the duel walbro's just because it looks pretty plug n play and walbro is a good company along with buschur