Factory ECU Dual Pump Control
#17
03whitegsr: I really like that approach. Depending on the pumps, you'd still want to relay home-run power to the pumps over heavier-gauge wire (think 044s, that can draw upwards of 20A at reasonable pressures). But overall, the configuration would be a lot less invasive, and the fact that we could control the cutover point in the ECU is very cool.
#18
Yeah, finding the code that controls when it changes over is about all that's needed. It may even be high enough with the factory setting to work just fine as is.
I was thinking the 044s were up around 25A under high pressures, but as somebody mentioned, it's only 16-18A max. Rewiring both pumps would still be a good idea IMO.
The other thing I've been thinking about is for dual pumps in a surge tank system. I'm wondering if the factory resistor could handle a walbro 255 and a Bosch 044 pump wired in parallel. Basically a low/high system for the road race/auto-X type applications. I don't think I'll ever need dual pumps in parallel, but I do have the intention of doing a surge tank and 044 external.
I was thinking the 044s were up around 25A under high pressures, but as somebody mentioned, it's only 16-18A max. Rewiring both pumps would still be a good idea IMO.
The other thing I've been thinking about is for dual pumps in a surge tank system. I'm wondering if the factory resistor could handle a walbro 255 and a Bosch 044 pump wired in parallel. Basically a low/high system for the road race/auto-X type applications. I don't think I'll ever need dual pumps in parallel, but I do have the intention of doing a surge tank and 044 external.
#19
Yeah, finding the code that controls when it changes over is about all that's needed. It may even be high enough with the factory setting to work just fine as is.
I was thinking the 044s were up around 25A under high pressures, but as somebody mentioned, it's only 16-18A max. Rewiring both pumps would still be a good idea IMO.
The other thing I've been thinking about is for dual pumps in a surge tank system. I'm wondering if the factory resistor could handle a walbro 255 and a Bosch 044 pump wired in parallel. Basically a low/high system for the road race/auto-X type applications. I don't think I'll ever need dual pumps in parallel, but I do have the intention of doing a surge tank and 044 external.
I was thinking the 044s were up around 25A under high pressures, but as somebody mentioned, it's only 16-18A max. Rewiring both pumps would still be a good idea IMO.
The other thing I've been thinking about is for dual pumps in a surge tank system. I'm wondering if the factory resistor could handle a walbro 255 and a Bosch 044 pump wired in parallel. Basically a low/high system for the road race/auto-X type applications. I don't think I'll ever need dual pumps in parallel, but I do have the intention of doing a surge tank and 044 external.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bosch...22010010r12984
http://www.millionbuyplus.com/view_p...o=ACCRELAYKIT1
#20
Does anybody have the part #'s on the factory relays? I use the 2g DSM fuel pump relays quite a bit and they are rated from the manufacturer at 15A constant duty. I have ran them upwards of 20A though without a problem for short periods of time (10-15 seconds).
#21
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Boost-a-pump i believe was used by mellon before he upgraded to the br double pumper. im not sure what injectors and hp levels he got while using that.
i guess the biggest problem of using this is that it would probably make the walbro overheat. probably not an issue if the fuel in the tank is above half but would probably be an issue if the fuel is below 1/4 tank.
i guess the biggest problem of using this is that it would probably make the walbro overheat. probably not an issue if the fuel in the tank is above half but would probably be an issue if the fuel is below 1/4 tank.
#22
Here is a link to another player in the voltage boosting to fuel pump department...
http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/efi_fuelpump.html
Increasing rail pressure will help your 1200's as well. Go to RC engineerings website and you will discover most 1200's on the market only flow 1200cc with over 50 psi rail pressure and only flow around 1070cc with our 43.5 psi.
PS I have 1200 cc injectors also
http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/efi_fuelpump.html
Increasing rail pressure will help your 1200's as well. Go to RC engineerings website and you will discover most 1200's on the market only flow 1200cc with over 50 psi rail pressure and only flow around 1070cc with our 43.5 psi.
PS I have 1200 cc injectors also
If there was a way to change values to that a second pump could turn on by means of a load % point, that would be great. But for now I'd say the Buschur type double pumper using a Hobbes switch comes in a close 2nd.
#23
Bump.
I'm dealing with this idea right now. I'm on the Full-Blown setup, I've drilled the return fitting and installed an adjustable FPR but at idle with both pumps on my fuel pressure is still too high. I have the 1st pump running on the factory wiring, it runs at 9.5V at idle. The 2nd pump runs off a relay triggered by the 1st pump, it gets 14.5V at idle. This creates 55 psi of idle fuel pressure.
I just reviewed the factory wiring diagram at work with one of the EE's. We are thinking about triggering the 2nd pump with the factory ECU dual voltage setup as well. This would leave the 2nd pump off at idle and turn it on when the first pump hits 14V. The big questions is when does the ECU bump voltage from 9.5V to 14.5V? I'm going to go do some testing this weekend logging pump voltage in Logworks and see if it matches a load value. Hopefully it is high enough into the fuel demand that turning on the 2nd pump will be OK.
Right now I've got a hack I'm trying out. I have the 2nd pump running full-time through my relay, but the voltage has now been dropped to 7.5V through a large heat sinked 1 ohm resistor. My idle fuel pressure is now a livable 37 psi. I'm going to see if that's enough for 28 psi on the E85. My single modified Walbro could do it, so maybe one stock Walbro at 14 V and one at 7.5V can as well.
Stay tuned .
I'm dealing with this idea right now. I'm on the Full-Blown setup, I've drilled the return fitting and installed an adjustable FPR but at idle with both pumps on my fuel pressure is still too high. I have the 1st pump running on the factory wiring, it runs at 9.5V at idle. The 2nd pump runs off a relay triggered by the 1st pump, it gets 14.5V at idle. This creates 55 psi of idle fuel pressure.
I just reviewed the factory wiring diagram at work with one of the EE's. We are thinking about triggering the 2nd pump with the factory ECU dual voltage setup as well. This would leave the 2nd pump off at idle and turn it on when the first pump hits 14V. The big questions is when does the ECU bump voltage from 9.5V to 14.5V? I'm going to go do some testing this weekend logging pump voltage in Logworks and see if it matches a load value. Hopefully it is high enough into the fuel demand that turning on the 2nd pump will be OK.
Right now I've got a hack I'm trying out. I have the 2nd pump running full-time through my relay, but the voltage has now been dropped to 7.5V through a large heat sinked 1 ohm resistor. My idle fuel pressure is now a livable 37 psi. I'm going to see if that's enough for 28 psi on the E85. My single modified Walbro could do it, so maybe one stock Walbro at 14 V and one at 7.5V can as well.
Stay tuned .
Last edited by jid2; May 15, 2009 at 09:33 PM.
#25
Does anyone have that hobb switch part number?
After reading all this, its seems alot simpler with a hobb switch that works just fine.
Edit: I think I found it but not sure about the part number (76579)
Edit: I found the napa number and verified it. It comes with both normally close and normally open.
Tested out of the box. Normally open closes at 5-6 psi which is adjustable if needed.
Hobbs switch part number ( napa brand) 701-1591. Description- switch duel circuit.
After reading all this, its seems alot simpler with a hobb switch that works just fine.
Edit: I think I found it but not sure about the part number (76579)
Edit: I found the napa number and verified it. It comes with both normally close and normally open.
Tested out of the box. Normally open closes at 5-6 psi which is adjustable if needed.
Hobbs switch part number ( napa brand) 701-1591. Description- switch duel circuit.
Last edited by awddyno; May 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM.
#26
Depends on the pressure you want to kick off at. Digikey list. Also, McMaster carries pressure switches as well.
#28
Lol, it's actually very simple to trigger the second pump and only requires a single relay. It definitely doesn't need an EE to figure it out. I just want to use OEM connectors to make everything a clean install that I wouldn't have to cut any factory wiring with and finding the factory style electrical terminals is where I have the problem.
But I guess if it's too complicated for some, then don't worry about it and continue on with a Hobbs switch.
But I guess if it's too complicated for some, then don't worry about it and continue on with a Hobbs switch.
#29
I'm mostly frustrated with getting both pumps to work running full-time. I tried a bunch of things to get that to work - but couldn't drop my fuel pressure at idle to where it needed to be. Adjustable FPR, drilling out the return fitting etc, it wouldn't cut it. So the hassle was mostly in the whole fueling in general - I've been throwing parts at it for a month now.
I wanted to be able to adjust the point where the 2nd pump comes on. Right now we can't do that in the ECU. So I'm using the Hobbs. If someone figures out how to adjust the trigger for the fuel pump in the ECU - I'm game.
I wanted to be able to adjust the point where the 2nd pump comes on. Right now we can't do that in the ECU. So I'm using the Hobbs. If someone figures out how to adjust the trigger for the fuel pump in the ECU - I'm game.