Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

Ok, not exactly sure if I understand my question as it is worded, but then I new it would peak some interest...lol.

EDIT: OK so the title sucks, If MOD will be so kind as to title it what it should be, for I was lost for words.

So on to the real issue:

I am having an issue timing/tuning the car. I have a timing map that is so smooth and solved my cruise issue, but now I have the repetitive knock in the boost areas. The issue is not necessarly with boost but timing, and not really to do with the high end of the range...though, Im thinking that my issue when i point it out here, will make sense, and hopefully cure this weird issue(brief history to get the mind right).

This issue started a month ago right after the Kelford 272's went in. So been tuning it for timing and trying to get knock out for the last month. dont ask...lol.
Everything we try goes one way, and then goes the other. I have had al sorts of random knock. I adjust and retard timing a little, try again, smooth in that range, but now knock appears over hear, or happens guarenteed 10 times with the high count of probably 10 knock in on log cell per log line... meening it happens approx once in a 45 mile period. Drive fine for 20 miles, knock to the 10 count for like a mile...(throttle adjust to get out of th etiming load, like others suggest) and then drive completly fine to the destination.

I get there, shut off the car, leave it say for 2 hours, go to start it, and guess what... I get one piston to fire, it doesnt sound the car even fires a plug, it turns over, but then it starts and literally idles at 50 rpms for like a few second, i give it a little throttle blip and the idle catches...random. This has happened since day one of the cams.

My only other options are It has to be tune or it has to be an electronic component either controlled by the ECU, or part of the ignition... Hense my question about what is actually happening in the intital stages on the startup. What is the ECU doing...? Might help solve if it is a tuning issue...lol

I have 30 maps all with altered timing, and all utilizing the same boost and AFR maps. Since I thought timing was where you start...lol.

I took timing to the 0's in the 300 load/7000 rpms in some maps to 6's in others.
My point is, I have played and played with timeing.

What gets me is that only one piston will fire for a minute or is the car so flooded it cant start, or is there a timing issue?

I am leaning towards hardware i.e. ignition coils, ignition wires, etc. I recently upgraded the plugs from BR7EIX's --> then to BR8ES --> finally to go with BR8EIX gapped at 23, "blue printed" to face the injectors, etc.

23~24 psi on the boost, logs and guage, wideband seems to be on...
Im running I think the ECU based boost control. 4 Bar omni, 3 port solenoid, etc.

Any thoughts...

Thanks in advance.

Oh, and map is 94170015...

EDIT: I decided to list two logs for you. I have both maps for each log intact. The first log will show the random *** knock in cruise mode. This knock happens anywhere in this peticular map, from 2500 rpms to 4000 rpms only...

The second log is the log utilising the current timing map pictured as well. The cruise log I did shows random 1-2 counts of knock for 45 miles, maybe a total of 10 cells out of 10k have a 1 or even a 2. But the boost is a different story. Lets just say 3 seconds are missing from my pull. 3k -55k missing. But i did notice my CEL light came on at roughly 5k, slowly and then progressed upword. Car lagged a little but for the most part hammerd through it. Meaning it felt like I applied brakes during some of the misfires, not hard, and no boost cut either. Just like i let of the gas for a second...

GST Motorsports

iTrader: (8)

What injectors, what are your fuel trims at full operating temp

What does your IPW vs coolant map look like

What does your Cold Start Ignition timing trim map(s) look like

RoadSpike

iTrader: (5)

SAS screw adjustment ever made for these cams to help with stalling and idle?

Is the knock confined to a RPM range in low load such that it could be a possible phantom/noise induced knock?

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

Thank you for the fast reply, sorry bout the book read,

Injectos are stock, and scaled at the stock value of 513.
Trims are in both logs. but -0.4875 in the low and -0.2419 mid and 02 feedback reads .1008

This is in the 3rd gear pull, which was done right after cruising for 45 miles. Though the cruise log posted is not from today....

What does your IPW vs coolant map look like, and What does your Cold Start Ignition timing trim map(s) look like ? Where might I find these or what column is it under?

I think I have what you want in this window. I have not touched any of these or adjusted any of these from stock values to my knowledge, i just have the deffinitions in the rom. I could also use a very clean rom... The one I have I pieced together as I have read specific area's, etc. I got a mega one from applaud I think, that had so many different additions, but its a mess. it is in no order etc. I don't think applaud wrote it, if youd did buddy, sorry, no offense. I just thought it would be in groups or in the areas that it reflects or attributes is all. There is code for the fuel table mixed in with code from timing table. Or maybe I got the wrong one.... Oh well so hopefully this is what you were asking for, if not, i have no such tables.

Question for Tephra if he reads this or maybe you know. Hypothetically, a Timing map from my original rom, 96420011, is transferable cut/paste to the new 94170015 map? Are timing maps universal in the manner which yes, if you have the scaling defined, and the memory location or hex location, you should be able to run a timing map from a stock map as a base for your alt map?

Timing in referance to the spark advance on one car, start with base rom, move over to other base rom, but utilize the same timing...it should work, right?

EDIT: Also, in this attached pic, do you see that huge box, that says "Boost enhancment, enrich/enlean, any way something to do with Anti lag...lol. What is up with that huge yellow box, in the middle of the load cells(50 - 90) which i might ad are the same load cells that trigger knock in the cruis range of my toher maps? Is this causing a lean condition at cruise that would throw off the tune and cause knock? Just caught my eye all lit up like that...lol Its like the dreaded spot on Jupiter. Lol... the bright yellow fuel storm on Black betty.

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

The idle is dialed in, when it is on. It usually catches fine, the longer I wait to start it, which suggest over fueling and not burning what is in the chamber after shut down.

The RPM range is within 2500 to 4000 rpms, and yes, never fails. 90 miles a day, 45 each way. Some morning's I would run the map, log it for cruise, and hit knock in say 2600... I would adjust, and drive home at night, the knock would move on me to say 3100. So yah, naturally you think it is a smoothing process... Like I said, we took timeing almost to 4* @ 7k rpm in the 180-200 load... That is almost pulling all the timing out... still knocks like coceyed wash machine. So then I got ballsy/frustrated, took the base 94170015 map I had, that was configured for my mods, by a reputable source, and I reset timing to the original numbers which derastically raised those load cells from 4 to say 24, and on in thorugh the curve. As you can see I am on revision 4 of just timing tune. This timing has very little knock in the cruise, in vacuum, should still have decent power, but now I am back to knocking in the midrange boost to highend..

Which I might add is where I was a month ago, only with out the scaling of the MAF, adjusting for the boost control, etc.

MFRED might know...
Not sure but something seems off, my WGDC in the first post is reading at 70% in the 3K range dipping slightly into the high 60's, and then climing back in to the mid 70's at redline...
I set these following your tuning instructions posted on here under ECU based boost control, i beleive. They were your notes though. Started low and gradually worked my way up to those settings.... Let me know if they are high for the ECU based settings? Is there a chance that load based boost control is doing something here?

RoadSpike

iTrader: (5)

Wastegate duty looks fine to me all with the exception of the 92% in the beginning turbo isn't going to spool there anyways so its its moot . The curve actually looks pretty common to me lots of duty in the beginning trying to get the turbo to spool up because of a lack of exhaust flow then a sudden drop to stop overboost followed by a slow rise as boost wants to taper by redline.

What kind of AFR are you running up top?

Your timing looks pretty normal on the low end but the high end it tapers off even more so than my car was using 91 octane.

Edit:
Oh the huge yellow box in the middle of the boost enhancement cuts fuel out when the EGR kicks in.

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

Thank you again for your help, can you elinghten me on where in the highend, and what you would do, or if you have a pic of your curve in relation the timing?

I am also an 04 Evo 8 GSR. 80K on the block.

Yah, I did take almost -3* or retarded 3* out of most of the high end cells, for we started with that higher same base map and then adjusted timing from their downword due to knock again. Evidently I passed the threshold before and then casued a rich condition which is causing knock? It seems that it is more a hardware issue or something... but what?

Boost hold 24psi-23 psi, so I am assuming no leaks for both guage and logs match? I did have one done, or supposedly, and it turned back fine as well...

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

Why does the RPM go from 2800 RPM to 5900 RPM in one sample while at WOT?
What valve springs are you using?

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

Are you thinking i am floating the valve springs? I am on the stock top end except for the cams. I have the rev limit set at 7500 RPMS.

I noticed that too... I have been getting weird logs like this, like maybe my cable is screwed up or something.

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

Sounds like a pumped lifter holding the valve open. I have a customer up here that did his own cams and has very similar issues. You get knock in vacuum yes?

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

yes, you are correct, knock is usually in vacuum on those other maps. At idle I do here a lifter that seems to be flat. Meening you can here it tick for a few, but after it warms up, she does pur with a tich of lope here and there. After a little bit of driving it is ok. The shop that put them in for me will be recieving a call then. They did say the bleaded or presurized the lifters after or during the install, looks like he will be fixing it again.

EDIT: Quick thought though. I ran the logs again for the 45 mile cruise to work this morning. Knock is minimul on this map like I stated 1-2 counts here an there in the mid, nothing like the other couple maps i have, but above 5K and its a heavy hitter...

I will be able to see on lunch if the floodng at startup is still there...

Thank you John.