Poor Cold Idle (Yes I searched)
Nov 12, 2009, 11:48 AM
#271
There are a few cold timing maps. The maps I mentioned, there is a control map and a timing trim map. Then there is also a cold start ignition map I think (not looking at my ROM at the moment). The control map controls the percentage retard in the trim map. You can edit either one, but I was asking if both were stock.
If you raised timing in the trim map or cold start map, then I would expect a 2k idle. For the two maps that I mentioned, are both of them stock?
Also, there is a periphery bit which disables cold start ignition retard. Is that enabled or disabled for you?
Basically, there are a number of ways to eliminate or reduce the cold start ignition retard. When I reduced mine, that's when my 2k idle began. Just trying to see if yours or others in the thread is the same issue, but with all of these maps and periphery bits, it's hard to know if we are talking about the same thing.
If you raised timing in the trim map or cold start map, then I would expect a 2k idle. For the two maps that I mentioned, are both of them stock?
Also, there is a periphery bit which disables cold start ignition retard. Is that enabled or disabled for you?
Basically, there are a number of ways to eliminate or reduce the cold start ignition retard. When I reduced mine, that's when my 2k idle began. Just trying to see if yours or others in the thread is the same issue, but with all of these maps and periphery bits, it's hard to know if we are talking about the same thing.
Last edited by l2r99gst; Nov 12, 2009 at 11:52 AM.
Nov 12, 2009, 09:35 PM
#272
Nov 13, 2009, 07:01 AM
#273
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played with some more stuff this morning, now the damn thing idle hunts with the defrost turned on after pulling out of the driveway. I dropped the ISCV-A/C on (thats not the actual name of the table but I don't have the values in front of me) values to wayyy lower than what other people have posted for other things. I believe on this one I'll go back and look at the stock values, bump them up a little bit for the bigger cams to help things out, and let it ride from there. anyone got a quick link to the other ISCV tables from the 9417 rom? not the basic ones.
Nov 14, 2009, 08:02 PM
#274
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Ok , I think I have figured it out. I'm going to re-set everything to as close to "v7 default" as possible and then comment about what it took to get it more or less right.
Nov 16, 2009, 06:12 PM
#278
I have gone with some of the settings posted above, and on a cold start, my car will still rev up to 2000rpm, but only for a moment, then fall to 1800-1500rpm. Sometimes, randomly, it will rev up to 2400-ish and then fall down, very odd.
So, improved, but not ideal.
So, improved, but not ideal.
Nov 16, 2009, 08:46 PM
#279
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sorry, I've been dealing with family stuff and haven't really had a lot of time to mess with the car. This morning it was about the coldest its been, car cranked up, briefly idled at around 1600-1700 and then dropped down to 1000 and stayed put.
off the top of my head, the tables I modified to get it to this point (After turning egr back on, to no affect what so ever):
ISCV initial step a/c on-neutral (yes, I realize this has nothing to do with gear position)- raised these from the base rom values, but not nearly as high as some people have suggested elsewhere. from 45* to 180* I go from 74 to 40. for the one tagged A/C off-drive I go from 70 to 27 for the same range.
Idle stepper lookup table is a direct copy from 9417, nothing else to see there-not sure if this had an affect on the high cold idle, I think I was going after some other issue when I did this.
Under ISCV control:
ISCV demand startup CTS adder... I believe I lowered these. a fair amount.
from 18* to 180* I go from 87 to 27
I still had a strange issue where the idle would hang high after driving off, I got rid of this by modifying (lowering) ISCV demand CTS adder #2** post WOT (I believe it was this table at least) - from 18* to 180* I go from 19.6 to 6.7
for ISCV demand adder #1** I have 45.1 down to 3.9 for the same range (don't recall modifying this though)
and for the second cts adder #2 post WOT i have 39.6 down to 13.3 for the same range. I don't think I messed with this table.
I still need to re-set the BISS on my car, but at the moment it cranks up, gives a slight blip (sub 2000rpms), and settles down for an amusingly lopey 1000 rpm warmup idle. A/c on or off, defrost on or off. I'm pretty satisfied with the results.
oh and other things FWIW
I have egr and cold timing retard enabled, but the cold timing retard map is completely zeroed out. I'll disable egr in the periphery when I think about it and see if that has any affect at all, but I'm inclined to believe that it does not. I still have all the egr stuff on my car, and re-enabling it did nothing to alleviate the high idle. playing with the timing map didn't either.
off the top of my head, the tables I modified to get it to this point (After turning egr back on, to no affect what so ever):
ISCV initial step a/c on-neutral (yes, I realize this has nothing to do with gear position)- raised these from the base rom values, but not nearly as high as some people have suggested elsewhere. from 45* to 180* I go from 74 to 40. for the one tagged A/C off-drive I go from 70 to 27 for the same range.
Idle stepper lookup table is a direct copy from 9417, nothing else to see there-not sure if this had an affect on the high cold idle, I think I was going after some other issue when I did this.
Under ISCV control:
ISCV demand startup CTS adder... I believe I lowered these. a fair amount.
from 18* to 180* I go from 87 to 27
I still had a strange issue where the idle would hang high after driving off, I got rid of this by modifying (lowering) ISCV demand CTS adder #2** post WOT (I believe it was this table at least) - from 18* to 180* I go from 19.6 to 6.7
for ISCV demand adder #1** I have 45.1 down to 3.9 for the same range (don't recall modifying this though)
and for the second cts adder #2 post WOT i have 39.6 down to 13.3 for the same range. I don't think I messed with this table.
I still need to re-set the BISS on my car, but at the moment it cranks up, gives a slight blip (sub 2000rpms), and settles down for an amusingly lopey 1000 rpm warmup idle. A/c on or off, defrost on or off. I'm pretty satisfied with the results.
oh and other things FWIW
I have egr and cold timing retard enabled, but the cold timing retard map is completely zeroed out. I'll disable egr in the periphery when I think about it and see if that has any affect at all, but I'm inclined to believe that it does not. I still have all the egr stuff on my car, and re-enabling it did nothing to alleviate the high idle. playing with the timing map didn't either.
Last edited by linuxman51; Nov 16, 2009 at 08:49 PM.
Nov 16, 2009, 09:30 PM
#280
I'm thinking that the high cold idle is simply keeping the rpm high enough to stay out of the lean range (1500ish) while the car is warming up. So, if anyone will be able to get the high idle to go away, it'll also bring the warm up drivability issues back. Therefore, we can't have both unless someone finds another type of fix (for example via periphery bit). What do you guys think?
Last edited by D-VO; Nov 16, 2009 at 09:40 PM.
Nov 17, 2009, 05:22 AM
#281
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doesn't seem to be the case with mine. YMMV. Turned off EGR and cold start timing retard this morning, car idles the same. EGR is *NOT* the cause of the high idle.
There should be warmup enrichment tables floating around in the ecu somewhere (perhaps these are already known and I just don't have them in my def), but its not really an issue with my car, that I'm aware of. I'll datalog it at lunch today and see what it says.
There should be warmup enrichment tables floating around in the ecu somewhere (perhaps these are already known and I just don't have them in my def), but its not really an issue with my car, that I'm aware of. I'll datalog it at lunch today and see what it says.
Nov 17, 2009, 07:14 AM
#282
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When I made changes to the post primer enrich tables the car experienced a little bit of a rev.....
It did the 2 k rev but returned to stock much quicker, but once I hit the gas it would rev and hang a bit. It still would return to normal once warm.
Not sure if i stated it before but I have not changes the percentages for cold start retard and the only thing I changed in the new "hole" warmup table is the 5s that were in the idle area, I raised them to match my timing tables as 11.
Seems to me that there is a periphery change that causes the rev. I never experienced this hang when my car was stock.
It isn't like it is a bad thing. I look at is more as an automatic warning that the car isn't warm yet and my car is telling me.... "Look punk, I am still cold. You better not drive me".
It did the 2 k rev but returned to stock much quicker, but once I hit the gas it would rev and hang a bit. It still would return to normal once warm.
Not sure if i stated it before but I have not changes the percentages for cold start retard and the only thing I changed in the new "hole" warmup table is the 5s that were in the idle area, I raised them to match my timing tables as 11.
Seems to me that there is a periphery change that causes the rev. I never experienced this hang when my car was stock.
It isn't like it is a bad thing. I look at is more as an automatic warning that the car isn't warm yet and my car is telling me.... "Look punk, I am still cold. You better not drive me".
Nov 17, 2009, 08:22 AM
#283
Well guys since driving around for a bit I have gotten the dreaded p0505 CEL, so yeasterday I changed the idle setting back to the stock V7 values, and readjusted the BISS to 850 rpm. Car now idles at 975 RPM with ISC at 21 at idle. I bit lopey at idle but not like a cammed 350 or anything. I can deal with it as long as the P0505 doesn't come back...
BTW... Paul, let me know if you want me to send you my defined V7 xml
BTW... Paul, let me know if you want me to send you my defined V7 xml
Nov 17, 2009, 08:29 AM
#284
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Well guys since driving around for a bit I have gotten the dreaded p0505 CEL, so yeasterday I changed the idle setting back to the stock V7 values, and readjusted the BISS to 850 rpm. Car now idles at 975 RPM with ISC at 21 at idle. I bit lopey at idle but not like a cammed 350 or anything. I can deal with it as long as the P0505 doesn't come back...
BTW... Paul, let me know if you want me to send you my defined V7 xml
BTW... Paul, let me know if you want me to send you my defined V7 xml
I too am getting the P0505.
Oh where to go now? ? ?