Fuel maps don't line up?
Mar 1, 2010 | 06:37 AM
#16
If you weren't logging IAT, then how can you be sure that you weren't above or below the 77F mark for the switchover in when the different load is used for ignition?
In your future logs, log your IAT as well and post some with your maps (fuel and timing), so that we can trace through. If you can, log raw load, baro comp load, and baro+temp comp load.
I'm really interested in seeing your results.
In your future logs, log your IAT as well and post some with your maps (fuel and timing), so that we can trace through. If you can, log raw load, baro comp load, and baro+temp comp load.
I'm really interested in seeing your results.
Mar 1, 2010 | 06:59 AM
#17
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Herndon, VA
my mapped afr and timing follows wat ever my 1 byte load is... all the time ive logged so i never looked into compensated vs uncompensated. reading over your thread im starting to think that your asking why isnt the actual afr matching your mapped afr? like `5000rpm and 250 load mapped afr 10.1 and your wide band is reading 11.3. is that what you mean? if so then the answer is they rarely if ever will match up. maybe close but not going to be exact. let me know if thats what you mean.
If you look at the first graph. I'm only actually drawing lines for a few functions, but the values for everything is listed on the left.
There's a little black square on the climbing green RPM line. That square is a moment of time in that log. All the data on the left corresponds with that moment in time.
RPM is 4094. 2byte Load is 156. AFRMAP is 10.3. (My real AFR is actually 10.91 down at the bottom of the list "WBAF")
Now look at my fuel map.
The 4000 RPM row is close to 4094. The 10.2 cell is close to 10.3. So what column am I in? 120 load column.. But my log reads 156 load...
Or to do it the way most people do...
I logged 156 load, look at the chart on the 160 load column. I was at 4094 RPM so look at the 4000 RPM row. That brings me to the 9.1 cell.
But my logged AFRMAP is 10.3!?
The data does not correlate.
Unless I'm mistaken.. AFRMAP is telling me exactly what the target AFR the computer is using. That target AFR is straight off the fuel table.
I'm not considering that RPMS is innacurate, because I'm as sure as anybody can be that it is.
The only conclusion remaining is that LOAD is not accurate.
Mar 1, 2010 | 09:05 AM
#20
Mar 1, 2010 | 10:06 AM
#24
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Herndon, VA
Look what I just found.
I'm getting closer.
If I understand this correctly;
If I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 9894 and MUT01 = 8985: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Raw", with no temp compensation
Similarly if I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 8986 and MUT01 = 8987: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Temp_Compensated"
etc. etc.
Please someone let me know if I'm misunderstanding something.
So this leads me to another question. How do I enable the ability to log all 4 of these values with EvoScan? Currently I only have a single 2Byte Load in Evoscan, so it would seem I can change the entry in the MUT table, and log one of these at a time.
I would imagine though I can create new logging parameters in EvoScan and log all 4 of these simultaneously?
If nobody knows, I might be able to figure it out when I get home.
I'm getting closer.
If I understand this correctly;
If I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 9894 and MUT01 = 8985: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Raw", with no temp compensation
Similarly if I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 8986 and MUT01 = 8987: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Temp_Compensated"
etc. etc.
Please someone let me know if I'm misunderstanding something.
So this leads me to another question. How do I enable the ability to log all 4 of these values with EvoScan? Currently I only have a single 2Byte Load in Evoscan, so it would seem I can change the entry in the MUT table, and log one of these at a time.
I would imagine though I can create new logging parameters in EvoScan and log all 4 of these simultaneously?
If nobody knows, I might be able to figure it out when I get home.
Addresses
MUT Table
36200
There are 4 different 2-byte Load choices each with different correction factors.
2-byte LOAD_Raw (no temp compensation)
MUT00 = 8984
MUT01 = 8985
2-byte LOAD_Temp_Compensated
MUT00 = 8986
MUT01 = 8987
2-byte LOAD_Baro_Compensated
MUT00 = 8988
MUT01 = 8989
2-byte LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated
MUT00 = 898A
MUT01 = 898B
Load correction note: The ECU uses the following logic to find the lookup info it needs:
Fuel maps will either use Load_Raw OR LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated depending on an certain conditions
Ignition Maps will either use LOAD_Baro_Compensated OR LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated depending on the MAF IAT. (Thanks to Tephra for this info).
It is typically best to use the 2-byte LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated for tuning, while taking into account the lookup factors mentioned above for both Fuel and Ignition Timing. This will allow the tuner to accurately tune ignition timing while being able to compensate for the lookup logic for fueling. LOAD_Raw is typically 10-20 points higher than LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated at peak boost. You must take this into account when tuning using the 2-byte loads. With the advent of Tehpra's 1byte load(using a Tephra Mod ROM), you can use 1byte load(which is actually LOAD_Raw) to log LOAD_Raw. You can setup your 2byte load to be LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated, this will allow the tuner to see both compensated load and LOAD_Raw. Ultimatly, how you decide to set-up your 2-byte load and the methods you use to tune are up to you.
Other Addresses:
2-byte RPM
MUT02 = 8962
MUT03 = 8963
2-byte AirFlow
MUT04 = 89E2
MUT05 = 89E3
Retrieved from "http://evoecu.logic.net/wiki/96530006"
MUT Table
36200
There are 4 different 2-byte Load choices each with different correction factors.
2-byte LOAD_Raw (no temp compensation)
MUT00 = 8984
MUT01 = 8985
2-byte LOAD_Temp_Compensated
MUT00 = 8986
MUT01 = 8987
2-byte LOAD_Baro_Compensated
MUT00 = 8988
MUT01 = 8989
2-byte LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated
MUT00 = 898A
MUT01 = 898B
Load correction note: The ECU uses the following logic to find the lookup info it needs:
Fuel maps will either use Load_Raw OR LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated depending on an certain conditions
Ignition Maps will either use LOAD_Baro_Compensated OR LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated depending on the MAF IAT. (Thanks to Tephra for this info).
It is typically best to use the 2-byte LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated for tuning, while taking into account the lookup factors mentioned above for both Fuel and Ignition Timing. This will allow the tuner to accurately tune ignition timing while being able to compensate for the lookup logic for fueling. LOAD_Raw is typically 10-20 points higher than LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated at peak boost. You must take this into account when tuning using the 2-byte loads. With the advent of Tehpra's 1byte load(using a Tephra Mod ROM), you can use 1byte load(which is actually LOAD_Raw) to log LOAD_Raw. You can setup your 2byte load to be LOAD_Temp_and_Baro_Compensated, this will allow the tuner to see both compensated load and LOAD_Raw. Ultimatly, how you decide to set-up your 2-byte load and the methods you use to tune are up to you.
Other Addresses:
2-byte RPM
MUT02 = 8962
MUT03 = 8963
2-byte AirFlow
MUT04 = 89E2
MUT05 = 89E3
Retrieved from "http://evoecu.logic.net/wiki/96530006"
Last edited by Seijuro; Mar 1, 2010 at 10:09 AM.
Mar 1, 2010 | 11:14 AM
#25
No that's not what I mean, but I can understand the misunderstanding.
If you look at the first graph. I'm only actually drawing lines for a few functions, but the values for everything is listed on the left.
There's a little black square on the climbing green RPM line. That square is a moment of time in that log. All the data on the left corresponds with that moment in time.
RPM is 4094. 2byte Load is 156. AFRMAP is 10.3. (My real AFR is actually 10.91 down at the bottom of the list "WBAF")
Now look at my fuel map.
The 4000 RPM row is close to 4094. The 10.2 cell is close to 10.3. So what column am I in? 120 load column.. But my log reads 156 load...
Or to do it the way most people do...
I logged 156 load, look at the chart on the 160 load column. I was at 4094 RPM so look at the 4000 RPM row. That brings me to the 9.1 cell.
But my logged AFRMAP is 10.3!?
The data does not correlate.
Unless I'm mistaken.. AFRMAP is telling me exactly what the target AFR the computer is using. That target AFR is straight off the fuel table.
I'm not considering that RPMS is innacurate, because I'm as sure as anybody can be that it is.
The only conclusion remaining is that LOAD is not accurate.
If you look at the first graph. I'm only actually drawing lines for a few functions, but the values for everything is listed on the left.
There's a little black square on the climbing green RPM line. That square is a moment of time in that log. All the data on the left corresponds with that moment in time.
RPM is 4094. 2byte Load is 156. AFRMAP is 10.3. (My real AFR is actually 10.91 down at the bottom of the list "WBAF")
Now look at my fuel map.
The 4000 RPM row is close to 4094. The 10.2 cell is close to 10.3. So what column am I in? 120 load column.. But my log reads 156 load...
Or to do it the way most people do...
I logged 156 load, look at the chart on the 160 load column. I was at 4094 RPM so look at the 4000 RPM row. That brings me to the 9.1 cell.
But my logged AFRMAP is 10.3!?
The data does not correlate.
Unless I'm mistaken.. AFRMAP is telling me exactly what the target AFR the computer is using. That target AFR is straight off the fuel table.
I'm not considering that RPMS is innacurate, because I'm as sure as anybody can be that it is.
The only conclusion remaining is that LOAD is not accurate.
Mar 1, 2010 | 11:30 AM
#26
Look what I just found.
I'm getting closer.
If I understand this correctly;
If I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 9894 and MUT01 = 8985: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Raw", with no temp compensation
Similarly if I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 8986 and MUT01 = 8987: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Temp_Compensated"
I'm getting closer.
If I understand this correctly;
If I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 9894 and MUT01 = 8985: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Raw", with no temp compensation
Similarly if I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 8986 and MUT01 = 8987: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Temp_Compensated"
Set
MUT00: 0x8984
MUT01: 0x8985
That is load raw. In evoscan, add a new logged item. Size is two bytes, request is "00" and scaling is "0.3125*x".
Then
MUT02: 0x898A
MUT03: 0x898B
That is load temp+baro. In evoscan, add a new logged item. Size is two bytes, request is "02" and scaling is "0.3125*x".
Enjoy.
d
Mar 1, 2010 | 11:40 AM
#27
Look what I just found.
I'm getting closer.
If I understand this correctly;
If I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 9894 and MUT01 = 8985: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Raw", with no temp compensation
Similarly if I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 8986 and MUT01 = 8987: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Temp_Compensated"
etc. etc.
Please someone let me know if I'm misunderstanding something.
So this leads me to another question. How do I enable the ability to log all 4 of these values with EvoScan? Currently I only have a single 2Byte Load in Evoscan, so it would seem I can change the entry in the MUT table, and log one of these at a time.
I would imagine though I can create new logging parameters in EvoScan and log all 4 of these simultaneously?
If nobody knows, I might be able to figure it out when I get home.
I'm getting closer.
If I understand this correctly;
If I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 9894 and MUT01 = 8985: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Raw", with no temp compensation
Similarly if I edit my MUT table with ECUFlash such that MUT00 = 8986 and MUT01 = 8987: 2Byte Load will be "Load_Temp_Compensated"
etc. etc.
Please someone let me know if I'm misunderstanding something.
So this leads me to another question. How do I enable the ability to log all 4 of these values with EvoScan? Currently I only have a single 2Byte Load in Evoscan, so it would seem I can change the entry in the MUT table, and log one of these at a time.
I would imagine though I can create new logging parameters in EvoScan and log all 4 of these simultaneously?
If nobody knows, I might be able to figure it out when I get home.
Place the corresponding hex location in the MUT location you want, point evoscan at the first of the two bytes, and change the evoscan request to look at that MUT location with a 2 byte response.
Mar 1, 2010 | 12:46 PM
#28
Whoa I just did some logging with evoscan (I use 2.7 beta5) and my afrmap is not even close to where my tables are in my ecuflash???? Example 2500rpm, 118 load afrmap reads 11.83, my ecuflash at 2500 and 120 reads 13.6????? whats up there? Not only that but EVERYTHING above 3000rpms afrmap registers a flat 10.01??? Sorry not trying to hyjack but figured this pertains to the exact same thing as OP.
Mar 1, 2010 | 01:22 PM
#29
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Herndon, VA
Whoa I just did some logging with evoscan (I use 2.7 beta5) and my afrmap is not even close to where my tables are in my ecuflash???? Example 2500rpm, 118 load afrmap reads 11.83, my ecuflash at 2500 and 120 reads 13.6????? whats up there? Not only that but EVERYTHING above 3000rpms afrmap registers a flat 10.01??? Sorry not trying to hyjack but figured this pertains to the exact same thing as OP.
The question now is, what "load" are you logging?
Mar 1, 2010 | 01:25 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Herndon, VA
Yes. That's pretty close.
Set
MUT00: 0x8984
MUT01: 0x8985
That is load raw. In evoscan, add a new logged item. Size is two bytes, request is "00" and scaling is "0.3125*x".
Then
MUT02: 0x898A
MUT03: 0x898B
That is load temp+baro. In evoscan, add a new logged item. Size is two bytes, request is "02" and scaling is "0.3125*x".
Enjoy.
d
Set
MUT00: 0x8984
MUT01: 0x8985
That is load raw. In evoscan, add a new logged item. Size is two bytes, request is "00" and scaling is "0.3125*x".
Then
MUT02: 0x898A
MUT03: 0x898B
That is load temp+baro. In evoscan, add a new logged item. Size is two bytes, request is "02" and scaling is "0.3125*x".
Enjoy.
d
It raises another question for me though. MUT02 and MUT03 are used for 2Byte RPM. Similarly MUT04 and MUT05 are used for 2Byte Airflow.
Are there any cells in the MUT that basically aren't used? Or will I just need to give up one thing to log another?
Better yet because I'd rather know how to fish than eat a fish, where would I find all the uses of the MUT currently?